carbon monoxide in tanks - cozumel

[Web Monkey]

The set up you describe is available currently as seen here from the blog post above. I use this same set up myself and it works very well. If however one needs to check multiple tanks quickly Analox sells a DIN and Yoke high pressure flow restrictor which can be attached directly to the tank. OMS also has a DIN flow restrictor which can be used.

http://modscuba.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/coanalyzer/coanalyzer4.jpg
OMS Oxygen Analyzer http://www.OMSdive.com

Down Under this hp flow DIN flow restrictor is available.
Divetek Oz Home page

That looks like it has hoses and assorted other stuff. I'm talking about somthing that would just snap on to the hose like a SCUBAlert. This is all too clumsy. I don't want to setup a gas lab on a 6-pack boat, I'd just like something that plugs into a hose and says "33% O2, 0 ppm CO" so I know what I'm breathing.

I know that component size isn't an issue, since the pocket CO is tiny and the actual functional components in my OMS o2 analyzer are pretty small also. There's no reason the whole thing couldn't be the size of a roll of quarters and just snap on to the end of the hose.

It's just a question of packaging.

Terry

 

[DandyDon]

Map51, Hello I was on the dive with you. I brought my unconscious Uncle up from 90'... are actual ascent time was 42 seconds from 90'.

First my Uncle is back in PA and doing good. After my Uncle came back to life I flew home the next day as planned while he stayed in the hospital to recover.

Also, I would like to know if you know what happened with the first diver that was rescued? I heard while we were at the hospital they couldn't get a heart beat? Do you know if he lived? I know my Uncle and the other diver both lived and should be able to dive again because they had rooms next to each other.

Also, I suspected CO after I got my head around the situation and talked to DAN. Dive Palancar assured me they would test the tanks... however, they have not shared the results. I've asked DAN to try and follow-up.

Below is the recap from my first hand experience:

This message is so I can share with you what happened and hopefully can prevent further dive injuries.

I've done about 500 dives during the last 3 years of which I've done close to 200 in the past 12 months and I have never, ever seen anything like this. My dive buddy (injured diver three in the info below) is a Dive Master since 1975 and dives more than I do.

Location: Cozumel, MX.
Duration: 7-10 days of diving 2 – 3 dives per day
Dive Injury Location: Palancar Reef @ Horse Shoe (between Palancar Caves and Palancar Gardens)
Dive Shop: Dive Palancar, onsite with Alegro Resort and Occidental Grand Hotel
Rescue Dive Shop for Injured diver 1: Dive Palancar, onsite with Alegro Resourts
Rescue Dive Shop for Injured divers 2 and 3: Dressel Divers, onsite with the Iberostar Cozumel Resort.
Dive Gas: All 3 divers were using a standard Air tank.

Incident: 3 of 7 divers injured during descent on a multi-level dive to 90’
Date: Thursday, Feb 11, 2009 about 2:38PM.

Summary of Injury:
Diver 1: Blacked out during descent at about 25 feet, 2 minutes into descent.
Diver 2: Blacked out during continuation of descent to first dive level at about 60 feet, 12 minutes into descent / dive.
Diver 3: Blacked out at first dive level 75 feet 13 minutes into descent / dive.

Condition of Injured divers:
Diver 1: Unknown
Diver 2: Released from Hospital (Friday Feb 12th)
Diver 3: Released from Hospital (Saturday Feb 13th), still suffering minor joint pains

Location of Treatment:
Diver 1: Unknown
Diver 2: Cozumel Internal Clinic, Contact: 987-872-23-87
Diver 3: Initially Treated By Dr. Pascual Piccolo with Meditor:, before stabilizing and being transferred to the Cozumel Internal Clinic.

Details:
First diver blacked out about 2 minutes into the descent, and although I didn't see anything other than him surface and the boat pick him up from about 45' under water (while the descent was paused). I have heard from the dive-talk that he was being treated for a heart attach, and just blacked out during his decent.

Second diver blacked out at about 12 minutes into the dive around 60', I didn't realize what had happened, and frankly I though it was a buoyancy issue because it looked like his wife was trying to pull him down. In talking to him he got light headed, and the last thing he was able to do was inflate his BC.

Third diver blacked out at about 75'. This was my dive buddy and uncle so I witnessed almost the entire event, but it was limited because I was trying to let the dive master know about the second diver and was about 10 seconds away from buddy when he blacked out, and starting taking in water, . By the time I goto my buddy, jammed my octopus into his mouth and got buoyancy under control we were down to 90' before I was able to start the ascent. I noticed he was not breathing and started free flowing his air at which time his eyes blinked for 1 happy second before rolling back and going out. I began an emergency ascent with my buddy in tow from 90' and he started foaming (probable from trapped air in his lungs). Time of ascent was 42 seconds.

Once on the surface the second diver was convulsing, breathing, but non responsive to the situation. Third diver was out, but did have a pulse and seemed to take shallow breath as I used the octopus to force short bursts of air into his lungs every few seconds, until we confirmed he was taking a shallow breath... the best we could do considering we were floating in the ocean.

Next no boat. The boat had taken the first injured diver.

It took at least 10 minutes to secure a rescue boat by using every possible option available (emergency whistles, horns, distressed diver signal, yelling, etc..), during this time the third diver (my buddy) began convulsing but was non responsive to the situation, however I could tell he was now breathing for sure on his own, but it didn't last. And by the time we got him onto the boat I was sure he was dead. However, you don't give up and we began oxygen treatment and within a few minutes he was breathing and convulsing again. At about 20 minutes into the boat ride we ran low on oxygen and additional oxygen was obtained from another dive boat on the water, with the new oxygen we continued full speed ahead to the dock at which time my diver seemed to stabilize and come back to life. Opened his eyes, blinked. I asked him if he knew who I was and he did. I then told him had blacked out at 75' and we had done an emergency ascent and were about 5 minutes from the ambulance.

As we had pulled into dock (in our rescue boat with Dressel Divers at the Iberostar) Dressell had paramedics and a doctor along with two ambulances. During the 30 minute boat ride second diver had stabilized. The 3rd diver (my uncle) was the immediate concern, and was quickly checked out by the doctor who instructed the paramedics to get him into the hospital because his lungs were full of water.

Anyway the story ends well for the 2nd and 3rd diver, who as noted above were both released from hospital. The status of the 1st injured diver is not confirmed.

Misc Notes:
Dive Palancar assured me they were going to test the air in the tanks. When I followed up the next day with the dive shop they avoided the issue. I’ve asked DAN to get this info in the argument of research. I’m sure we had Carbon Monoxide loaded tanks. It is the only way I think you can have bad air and not know it.

I have done some research and I have found only one company that makes a portable CO tester specifically for divers.

Manufacture: Nuvair
Model: Pro CO Analyzer, BC flow adaptor sold separately)
Cost: $400
Website: cant' post the link because of site rules so I'll try to just do this www nuvair com
Carbon Monoxide Analyzer - Pro CO Alarm

We saw 3 other injured divers receive medical treatment during the week with Dive Palancar.

I myself felt fine immediately following the Rapid / Emergency Ascent, and never sought medical treatment in Cozumel, although the Doctor asked me several times how I was doing (somewhat amazed I felt fine).

Since my Uncle had stabilized and was in good care I went ahead and flew home about 20 hours following the rapid ascent. I did start to get DCS symptoms in flight that were very mild (wasn’t a huge concerned because I’ve had some minor DCS symptoms after long periods of diving, that have always gone away in a few days… and was in denial of the mild symptoms until they escalated at day 6 to moderate sharp muscle and joint pain along with the tingles in my arms and legs, and just to make sure I was a mess I got a nice does of vertigo. I was treated quickly by some great doctors in Scottsdale AZ and I’m hopeful I will make a full recovery over the next few weeks. I will post my treatment under another topic since it was delayed DCS treatment it is worth talking about and the way the hyperbaric treatments were administered.

Great save for your uncle and glad you're okay. Thank you very much for sharing.

Hey fellow divers, Patti here with Analox Sensor Technology. This is an important issue in our industry and EVERY diver should seriously consider testing every fill unless it comes from a compressor equipped with a Carbon Monoxide monitor/alarm.

Analox Sensor Technology is driving a revolution in diver safety with the COClear compressor monitor. While shops currently test for CO quarterly, the COClear compressor monitor is a cost effective way for every shop and resort to ensure EVERY fill is COClear EVERY time. Look for the COClear window sticker at your local dive shop.

Analox recognizes the need for a portable CO monitor for the traveling diver. We have a unit in development so stay tuned.

Safe and Happy Diving!

I realize that your job is to plug your company & line as well as survey the market for new sales possibilities, but please...!

I'm sure that your compressor unit is a good one, but I doubt we'll see wide spread use for years. We have industry wide apathy. What do you really have in personal testing instruments? Anything more than shop talk?

This an excellent analysis of the monitors presented. There are two major problems with the Pocket CO:

1.Calibration is very expensive, uses 100 ppm CO concentration, and takes too long.
2. Cross-sensitivity to other contaminants with this sensor is a real problem giving numerous false positives.

Another monitor worth looking at is the more expensive BW Tech Gas Alert Extreme which has a replaceable sensor ($200), however the display will not register until 3 ppm CO is present.
BW Technologies Gas Alert Extreme

It is too bad no one down there had a portable CO monitor to check the gas before the tanks mysteriously go missing or are emptied.

Ain't that the way. It'd be nice is divers would at least check their tanks for unsafe readings and object before the accidents and cover-ups.

 

[beachnik]

Hey fellow divers, Patti here with Analox Sensor Technology. This is an important issue in our industry and EVERY diver should seriously consider testing every fill unless it comes from a compressor equipped with a Carbon Monoxide monitor/alarm.

Analox Sensor Technology is driving a revolution in diver safety with the COClear compressor monitor. While shops currently test for CO quarterly, the COClear compressor monitor is a cost effective way for every shop and resort to ensure EVERY fill is COClear EVERY time. Look for the COClear window sticker at your local dive shop.

Analox recognizes the need for a portable CO monitor for the traveling diver. We have a unit in development so stay tuned.

Safe and Happy Diving!

Patti,

I'm glad to see you are jumping in here.

I'm also glad to see that Christi - a Dive Operator - is monitoring this. I know there are some other Cozumel Dive Operators reading this thread. I hope the word gets around and they all get in here.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread and in one other thread, there is one main filler on the island - Meridiano 87. Someone referred to him as 'Infra' - I think his company name is still Meridiano 87 and he distributes some 'Infra' brand products.

Good news about Meridiano - they didn't supply the tanks involved in this incident.

My guess is that Meridiano does not have a 'CO Clear' or equivalent installed. It's just a guess. I gotta think Meridiano is in here reading this stuff. I don't see them jumping in and telling us that they have this type of equipment installed. Patti, have you called on them?

I think if I were a Dive Operator in Cozumel, I'd be trying to organize a local professional trade group of operators that could go to Meridiano, en masse, and insist that they install this type of equipment. Further, that Meridiano agree to a standard protocol of equipment testing, maintenance, and documentation which was open to review by the Dive Operator's representative. Maybe these things already exist, but my guess is no.

This is just good PR 101. An added sales tool for the island's dive business, increased safety for divers and Dive Masters. And hopefully an end to long negative PR like what is happening in this thread (I would think that once Meridiano installed monitoring equipment, the other fillers would follow. Maybe). This thread has, at this moment, been viewed 3,227 times (in 8 days).

Installing monitoring equipment is really a win-win deal for everyone. The amortized cost of the equipment is almost nothing.

Patti, you probably know the names of all the operators on the island (those who fill and those who get their tanks from Meridiano). Might be worth your while to start making calls and stir it up a bit while this issue has some inertia.

Meridiano - are you listening?

 

[Scared Silly]

I realize that your job is to plug your company & line as well as survey the market for new sales possibilities, but please...!

Actually, I do not mind the folks from Analox jumping in for a couple of of reasons. For one, to my knowledge they are the only ones making a CO monitor for inline testing for compressors. For that matter here is a link to their unit so people know what it looks like:

Carbon Monoxide: Analox - Looking after the air you breathe.

The other reason why I do not mind is that currently there are only a couple of CO testers out there that are specifically geared towards divers. The Pocket Co (which I think was great that the company responded to you Don and your requests) and the Oxycheq monitor which is expensive. The ToxiRae3, which I have is a great monitor but it is geared for 1atm usage but it does work quite well as many have noted. By 1 atm the sensor goes from 0-500ppm where as for divers we want a sensor that is 0-50 ppm or so.

I personally would love to see a CO monitor that was similar to the Analox EOII. Why? cause it is geared towards divers so little things like the built it flow restrictor and being splash proof are being thought about.

I'm sure that your compressor unit is a good one, but I doubt we'll see wide spread use for years. We have industry wide apathy. What do you really have in personal testing instruments? Anything more than shop talk?

Right now it many be shop talk but they are listening. We as divers have their attention. I have sent in notes a couple of times asking about whether they might consider such a unit. They got the message. And who knows maybe some of us might be asked to try the units before they are publicly available and give them feedback (I have done this testing with other gear, though not scuba). Bringing a product to market is not easy and companies really do appreciate feedback positive or negative.

Ain't that the way. It'd be nice is divers would at least check their tanks for unsafe readings and object before the accidents and cover-ups.

Oddly there was an article in the last PADI journal of a dive boat that had a death. They did everything right but forgot to secure the gear from the diver. They did not record which gear they had and in the chaos of the accident it got mixed with other rental gear on the boat. Though the gear had nothing to do with the death a lawsuit entailed and they ended settling cause it looked liked they were covering their tracks by not securing the gear. Of course that was the USA and not Mexico.

 

[Scared Silly]

One comment about the ToxiRae3 - in MODScuba they note that the unit is good for two years. In talking with the tech at Rae Systems that is two years of "continuous" use such as for someone who works in a mine, factory or other hazardous area on a daily basis. For divers using on an intermittent basis the unit will last longer 5 years or so. Also, the sensor is not like a O2 sensor in that it is not a consumable which degrades with exposure so you do not need to keep it covered.

However, one does need to keep it calibrated. Because I have a local distributor I decided instead of investing in span gas and a reg I would just go to my distributor and have them do the calibration.

So here is a shameless plug for an idea for a scuba shop. Sell such units and offer calibration services.

 

[swamp diver]

One comment about the ToxiRae3 - in MODScuba they note that the unit is good for two years. In talking with the tech at Rae Systems that is two years of "continuous" use such as for someone who works in a mine, factory or other hazardous area on a daily basis. For divers using on an intermittent basis the unit will last longer 5 years or so. Also, the sensor is not like a O2 sensor in that it is not a consumable which degrades with exposure so you do not need to keep it covered.

However, one does need to keep it calibrated. Because I have a local distributor I decided instead of investing in span gas and a reg I would just go to my distributor and have them do the calibration.

So here is a shameless plug for an idea for a scuba shop. Sell such units and offer calibration services.

Getting these monitors accurately calibrated on a regular basis is the crux of the issue. Most divers would be willing to pay $200 for a CO monitor, but when told they need to purchase another $200 worth of calibration equipment that is often the deal breaker for the majority of recreational divers.

The problem with using the safety equipment houses to do the very simple one minute ToxiRae 3 calibration is they will often charge about $50 or more to do what takes a few minutes. If one is calibrating quarterly that becomes very expensive.

One answer to this calibration problem, and Analox will have to solve it before bringing a unit to the sport market, is to require a fixed CO monitor on all the commercial fill stations. Both DAN and the training agencies should be involved in pushing for this requirement which is now the case for every fire service compressor in the USA.

If a shop or dive resort installs an Analox CO Clear for example they will have 10 ppm CO calibration gas on hand plus zero air in order to calibrate the CO Clear unit in the shop. Here in my city there are now two shops with the CO Clear and divers have started to use them for hand-held CO monitor calibration at a reasonable price. In other words once there is a network of fixed compressor units in the scuba shops and dive resorts across North America the sport diver will have access to reasonably priced calibration services.

By the way the ToxiRae 3 and the BWT units are both water resistant to 1 metre so virtually splash proof. This is indicated by the Ingress Protection rating for water and dust at IP 6/7. At the trade shows BW Tech has their Gas Alert Extreme model sitting at the bottom of a 1 metre column of water with the power on. There is an o-ring on the case seal and gortex-type material seals beneath the alarm and calibration ports.

 

[DandyDon]

I'm also glad to see that Christi - a Dive Operator - is monitoring this. I know there are some other Cozumel Dive Operators reading this thread. I hope the word gets around and they all get in here.

I'm sure some are reading quietly. I bet they all know exactly what happened and if anyone died but won't say here. Hiding accident info is standard procedure.

This is just good PR 101. An added sales tool for the island's dive business, increased safety for divers and Dive Masters. And hopefully an end to long negative PR like what is happening in this thread (I would think that once Meridiano installed monitoring equipment, the other fillers would follow. Maybe). This thread has, at this moment, been viewed 3,227 times (in 8 days).

Wishful thinking I fear. Even if they main station installs inline monitors, I doubt that we could hope that all would - but then it is a worldwide problem really. I do know of another nitrox provider that may go into business there, but it's not certain yet.

Actually, I do not mind the folks from Analox jumping in for a couple of of reasons. For one, to my knowledge they are the only ones making a CO monitor for inline testing for compressors.

I would not mind either other than her post struck me as nothing but marketing. I hope that they do soon create a personal CO tester but - if they really wanted to, it's not like they have to create the technology. We need now.

There is another inline monitor with auto shut off but I am on a very slow connection here on Roatan so cannot search for it. The likelihood of getting most ops in the world to use one tho seems very remote.

It all goes back to us divers, what we will insist on in larger numbers, what we will do for ourselves, etc. We avoid government regulation, and don't trust the various governments we dive under anyway, so we have to do it. Until we do, I'll keep testing my own and hope to not have to test another's tank after an accident or death.

Right now it many be shop talk but they are listening. We as divers have their attention. I have sent in notes a couple of times asking about whether they might consider such a unit. They got the message. And who knows maybe some of us might be asked to try the units before they are publicly available and give them feedback (I have done this testing with other gear, though not scuba). Bringing a product to market is not easy and companies really do appreciate feedback positive or negative.

Hope so. They want a guaranteed market and profit, which I do understand, but most divers don't seem to care much.

I got 5ppm readings from nitrox half the time this week and looked at the electric compressors. The intakes are 15 feet up above the boat dock where engines idled creating a CO plume.

Oddly there was an article in the last PADI journal of a dive boat that had a death. They did everything right but forgot to secure the gear from the diver. They did not record which gear they had and in the chaos of the accident it got mixed with other rental gear on the boat. Though the gear had nothing to do with the death a lawsuit entailed and they ended settling cause it looked liked they were covering their tracks by not securing the gear. Of course that was the USA and not Mexico.

I don't worry so much about US operators, but I don't dive in the US much. Still, when I do, I test. Usually it's Blue Hole NM, with air from a compressor 100 ft off of I-40. CO plumes are unseen and that compressor will never have a monitor I bet.

Getting these monitors accurately calibrated on a regular basis is the crux of the issue. Most divers would be willing to pay $200 for a CO monitor

Uh, I see very few who are willing. Some talk, a little action...

One answer to this calibration problem, and Analox will have to solve it before bringing a unit to the sport market, is to require a fixed CO monitor on all the commercial fill stations. Both DAN and the training agencies should be involved in pushing for this requirement which is now the case for every fire service compressor in the USA.

So why are they so silent, even DAN? Bad for business? That's my guess. If any take a real stand, which would disqualify most ops in the world - it would alienate ops and discourage overall diving. Since the smoking gun tanks are quickly hidden in accidents, business as before...

 

[FastEddy]

"It all goes back to us divers, what we will insist on in larger numbers, what we will do for ourselves, etc." - DandyDon.

Perfectly phrased, DandyDon. It is only through education and reading about incidents like this that we will even be aware of these contamination issues. Relying on PADI or the operators themselves is dangerous. PADI underplays the potential for air contamination in their training materials - none of the PADI materials talk about Pyrolysis (as least when I took the course in 1999). My first instructor said, just smell the air and if it smells okay, then no need to worry. Of course, for obvious reasons, PADI wrote the best way to avoid potential air contamination is to "choose a PADI affiliated dive center", as if that is any guarantee. Well, Palancar is PADI affilitated.

I am so grateful for the internet. This story broke when I was in Bonaire. The next day, when my wife and I went to pick up our tanks (which sat inside the compressor room at the operator we chose), the room stank of turpentine or some other volatile solvent. I chose not to dive at the chance that the tanks may have become contaminated. My wife raised the issue of not keeping open solvents around the compressor and the employee (Ralph) at this place (Carib Inn) told her: "don't worry about it". When she insisted that the solvents might make their way into the tanks, she was told by Ralph: "Just because you take one Scuba course does not mean you know anything".

She then went to complain to Mr. Bowker, the owner. His view was that there was no way any contaminents could possibly make their way into the tanks because the filter would remove 100 percent of them. When she insisted that it could still be a problem and it was not adviseable to be painting around the compressor, he became upset and asked her if she expected him not to paint. I was told the following by someone very knowledgable when I inquired about this situation: "The typical filter contains granular carbon, molecular sieve (as a desiccant) and hopcalite (to convert CO to CO2). However, most filters are changed by an hourly recommendation and some are changed due to an electronic device (e.g. Bauer Securus) that monitors the moisture level of the molecular sieve. In either case, I'd have a hard time feeling good about my gas from the supplier you went to since the high level of volatile vapors most likely will chew through the carbon at high rate and neither hours or an electronic device is going to tell you when saturation or breakthrough of the carbon occurs."

In the end, we were not willing to take the chance on breathing solvents at 4 ATM so we settled up for the time we had been there and went elsewhere. Mr. Bowker provided us with a copy of the report from Trace Analytics that showed that the air had passed the standards for Grade E Air in January, 2010. While I appreciated this, a test done a month prior to the painting incident is no proof that the air is clean at the time of the painting; in fact, it is irrelevant.

But I am just one guy. How many divers will insist that the operator be diligent about avoiding air contamination? Until legions of divers start to demand that operators get more serious about avoiding contamination, I fear incidents like Palancar will continue to crop up, which is sad because we have the technology to avoid it and that technology is dirt cheap in comparison to the dangers that exist.

 

[swamp diver]

So why are they so silent, even DAN? Bad for business? That's my guess.

Unfortunately you are probably close to the truth with this assertion. DAN is an organization with many priorities, often competing, and currently it appears the corporate hat takes precedent over the membership hat when it comes to research into and education about the diver breathing air/gas contamination safety issue.

DAN has been very proactive with regards to safety issues which generally involve the individual diver such as decompression illness and medical fitness, but when it comes to dealing with this difficult "industry" safety issue of contaminated breathing air/gas it appears they don't have the stomach for it. One suspects that those wearing DAN's corporate hat fear that confronting this elephant in the room may offend some of those sponsors listed below or worse result in the loss of their financial support. Individual divers may think this is a very important safety issue, but the dive industry I suspect would rather see it remain under the carpet as it effectively has to date.
DAN Divers Alert Network : Development : Corporate Donors

It's pretty clear from the Tulum Mexico, Roatan Honduras, and Maldivian fatalities, and now this recent Cozumel incident that contaminated breathing air is a real issue that is not going to go away, and will only become more prominent as divers become more educated about the risk of contaminated breathing air and carry personal protection devices in order to identify these very real risks to their life and health. This is not 'tilting at windmills' as DAN has twice published in its Alert Diver magazine that the breathing air laboratories continue to report a failure rate of 3 to 5 percent for CO contamination in samples of diver compressed air submitted (US fire service air has much lower rates of failure on all contaminants).

DAN could play a leadership role in promoting safer compressor operation but more importantly in the 21st century they should be insisting that all commercial dive fill stations do have an inline CO monitor installed which means admitting the problem exists in the first place. We expect our food, drinking water, and blood products to be contaminant-free, and will protest strongly when they are not, yet we divers stick our heads in the sand when it comes to our breathing gas quality where often the risks of contamination are far greater than any of those found in food, water, or blood.

It is pretty clear that the dive industry is not going to take this issue on and while educated individual divers may carry carbon monoxide monitors to protect their compressed breathing air supply this will always be a minority of divers leaving the majority of recreational divers still at risk for serious injury or death as happened in this recent Cozumel and last year's Maldivian incidents.

It is high time DAN showed some leadership on this issue, acknowledged its seriousness, and reviewed its mission and vision statements which clearly state what its priorities should be to the membership regarding diver safety issues even if this does mean cutting off a few of the corporate hands which feed the organization.
http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/about/index.asp

 

[redacted]

I have put my next Cozumel trip on hold. Maybe it will go to FL.