Carbon Monoxide in Cozumel

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why would Blue XT Sea only test nitrox tanks?
My guess is they test O2 because the agencies say to, but the agencies have failed to address CO risks - still, so it's not required.

Our dive shop taught us to never dive nitrox without testing, way too easy for it to be fatal; but CO was basically taught as "if it tastes bad, stop using it immediately". I'm now questioning if I should get a CO tester- as I'm a nervous nellie, and it seems to be an easy thing to check.
That is really log cabin logic, you know - in the space age. People browse the net from smart phones on SIs, but they tell you to taste the air - even tho CO has no taste. :silly:

Like I said above, industry tests indicate that 97% of tanks tested by leading labs are safe, and only 3% are bad - how bad can vary, but the testing labs found many that would be deadly. Others may only make you have "traveler's flu."

Thanks to all that replied.

I didn't put much thought to CO testing until I read the post about BA. I plan to spend a week there in August, and honestly, I am not the type of person that's a worry-wart. However, I will be diving with my wife and 2 children, and I don't want to take any unnecessary risks with them (beyond the general risks of scuba diving).

I will likely rent an Analox unit and test the air for CO. Seems like a very small investment of time and money to eliminate a remote possibility, albeit one with potentially serious consequences.

Blue73
Very small cost, very small unit, very easy to use, etc. - and the rental company linked in my sig is really nice to deal with. I don't understand why any would oppose safety checks.

But some do still... :shakehead:
I honestly believe your money would be better spent on FULL DAN insurance for everyone diving....... Not having DAN to me is > anything else. Followed closely by testing Nitrox tanks.Get DAN! Don't leave home without it!
Good idea, different subject, not within thread paramaters. Sure, carry dive insurance. That has nothing to do with this subject.

Or any other trip insurance that covers scuba diving. You'll have to torture yourself by reading the fine print, as some do, some don't, and some have depth restrictions shallower than 130'.

I've consistently found much more coverage for less than DAN.
Now that is more interesting. A subject for a different thread, but interesting.

I test all my tanks for O2 and He content before a dive, but since this thread is about CO, I assumed he meant all nitrox tanks were being tested for CO while other tanks were not.
That would make no sense to me. :confused:
 
How many tanks are used on a typical day in Cozumel? I will guess 1500 but that could be off a lot. 3% of 1500 is 45. That is a lot of potentially bad tanks. Multiply that by 365 and you have over 16,000 CO contaminated tanks annually if Cozumel is around the stated 3% level. If only 10% of those are bad enough to be a problem that is still 1,600 affected divers. Where are the reports about this issue?
 
How many tanks are used on a typical day in Cozumel? I will guess 1500 but that could be off a lot. 3% of 1500 is 45. That is a lot of potentially bad tanks. Multiply that by 365 and you have over 16,000 CO contaminated tanks annually if Cozumel is around the stated 3% level. If only 10% of those are bad enough to be a problem that is still 1,600 affected divers. Where are the reports about this issue?
I doubt the 97% number, but if true, you are right that it's a lousy margin of "safety". If 97% of planes didn't crash, would you fly? :D
 
That is really log cabin logic, you know - in the space age. People browse the net from smart phones on SIs, but they tell you to taste the air - even tho CO has no taste. :silly:

While I agree that there is no better way to test for CO that with a CO tester, I think the most common sources of CO would include other things that do have a foul taste.

That would make no sense to me. :confused:

I think there are a lot of things that people do that make no sense to anybody :)
 
Somehow my replies ended up in another thread - so I am cutting and pasting here and this is where I intended them to post :)

Analox no longer makes the portable CO testing unit. I was looking to purchase one and to have some in stock for sale along with the OEII nitrox analyzers. I was told directly by an Analox rep just a few weeks ago that they were having too many accuracy issues so the unit has been discontinued. I am looking into other options now.

---------- Post added July 22nd, 2015 at 03:29 PM ----------


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Originally Posted by DandyDon
There have been other reports of tainted Medidiano tanks even after they added the free CO monitors to their compressor. It seems the monitors can be ignored.



Really? News to me - can you please cite your references/sources for these reports? I receive an inspection and air report from Meridiano regularly and have seen proper vigilance and maintenance on their part. The operator who got his own compressor did not do so because of bad air from Meridiano. The volume of tanks they are filling everyday warranted and justified having their own compressor and the right opportunity presented itself.

---------- Post added July 22nd, 2015 at 03:31 PM ----------


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Originally Posted by hydroknot
The Analox O2EII Pro from Leisure Pro.



This is the unit for O2 testing, not CO

---------- Post added July 22nd, 2015 at 03:46 PM ----------

why would Blue XT Sea only test nitrox tanks?

Because this has been the SOP on the island. The only operator I am aware of that offers testing is Aldora as stated in this thread somewhere - they fill their own tanks. You would be hard pressed to find an operator on the island with a CO analyzer. I do agree that no one should object if you have your own that would be a big red flag IMO.

However, see my comments above.

We use Meridiano 87 who is an ISO 9000 company. I receive routine inspection reports and air quality reports as well as notices when maintenance is done on the compressors. In my 16 years of diving here we have never had issues with bad air and personal/portable CO testing is a new development in the industry. As stated above, I am researching options to have a CO tester on board.
 
I answered Chrisit on that other thread already.
How many tanks are used on a typical day in Cozumel? I will guess 1500 but that could be off a lot. 3% of 1500 is 45. That is a lot of potentially bad tanks. Multiply that by 365 and you have over 16,000 CO contaminated tanks annually if Cozumel is around the stated 3% level. If only 10% of those are bad enough to be a problem that is still 1,600 affected divers. Where are the reports about this issue?
As I said, how bad can vary. Everyone is welcome to dive their tanks blindly, no tests, hope for the best - go for it.

While I agree that there is no better way to test for CO that with a CO tester, I think the most common sources of CO would include other things that do have a foul taste.
Extremely minute sources could go unnoticed, while still producing enough CO to be bad - remembering that we are talking 10 ppMillion as the limit.

---------- Post added July 22nd, 2015 at 03:55 PM ----------

I think he covered it better than I can. You folks who want to dive blindly without testing tho - your call...
I missed that...I don't get over to A/I much....clearly, not as much as I should.
I just went through my old emails to see how long I've had the CO analyzer-I got it in 2010, and if I recall correctly, I finally looked into it after there was a CO incident on the island, involving an OP that fills its own tanks; the story that was eventually posted suggested that a truck was left idling in the same vicinity as the compressor. No doubt there are others on the board who have more details and/or more accurate recall than I do, regarding this incident.
Anyway....I started testing in Sept. or Nov. 2010, and I do recall getting several tanks on that trip, and possibly the following trip (which would have been Feb 2011). There were some that were pretty high-ie 10-14 ppm. I would never dive that concentration, though physiologically, I probably could tolerate that. There are people who couldn't, and really, no one should take the risk. Keep in mind the partial pressure of the gas increases, the deeper you go...so 10 ppm at the surface is not what you will be breathing at 33, 66, or 99 feet.
Since those trips late 2010/early 2011, I have had only a few tanks that had more than 2-3 ppm. I dive a minimum of 70 tanks/year that are filled on the island, the vast majority coming from the central fill station-though I have been out a few times with ops that did not get there fills there.
I test every tank, every time. Other divers on the boat are sometimes curious and ask me about it-but never once did I get the impression that any one of them was actually concerned about CO in their tanks, and I have never once been asked by a diver to check their tank. I've never even had the impression that someone was hinting at it. This, after my explanation to the other diver(s) about the CO issue, illustrated with a few examples from my own professional experience dealing with anoxic brain injuries-including CO poisoning related. Would I do it if asked? Yes, if asked. It's up to each diver to find out about the risks of diving and make their own decisions, including whether or not to test, and what their own personal comfort level is regarding PPM of CO. I don't own that responsibility for others when I am out diving.
Why the lack of concern? I am guessing that it is because, statistically speaking, it is relatively unlikely to happen to any one specific individual. People that go to Coz to dive know that there are hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of divers in the water every day, and, as far as they know, "nothing bad happens". And most days, that's probably true. Also, they look at the DMs, most of whom have thousands of dives, and who have not had a CO incident, and figure their own chances are slim to none. And that's partially true-the "slim" part...not the "none".
There are people on this board who know a lot more about the various safety standards set by various occupational watch dogs, and standard in different countries-perhaps they will chime in.
That thread you posted, and the subsequent comments, are really interesting. As a point of clarity regarding the tank at Blue Angel that one of the posters declined to dive-I wonder if BA is still filling their own tanks? They were a few years ago. I have had a few similar experiences, one at BA, and a couple others, each with a different DM/shop. I have twice had a DM dive a tank I refused to dive-even when I asked them not to. I have also seen a DM-, and on a different occasion, with a different OP-a shop manager-simply take the tank I reported and casually set it "aside" right next to or among the other unused tanks. I saw no attempt to separate or identify the tank by number, or tag it.
I would NEVER count on any DM or any OP to actually pull a tank, much less investigate further. Some might, but I would not count on it. Over the years, several DMs have asked me about my CO analyzer-sometimes more than once-and it has been very clear in most cases that they either didn't understand the CO issue, and/or didn't care. Perhaps that would be my attitude if I had made thousands of dives without incident.
I also would NEVER count an a fill station to stop filling if their one of their CO monitor was down, nor would I count on a particular station to even have a CO monitor.
Testing takes moments. I haven't run into any protestations from DMs/shop managers over testing. It's really hard to imagine a DM getting that excited about you pulling out an analyzer-especially when many of them won't have any idea what you are doing.
Get on the boat. Put the bc on the tank. Wait until you are not idling at a dock or otherwise exposed to exhaust. Have the regs off the tanks shortly before you intend to test. Line em up and do it, just like for nitrox. And, of course, let the monitor equilibrate between tanks.
 
That is really log cabin logic, you know - in the space age. People browse the net from smart phones on SIs, but they tell you to taste the air - even tho CO has no taste.
Common sources of contamination introduce a taste. I'm not saying not testing is smart. But most divers don't test. And many because they've never even been introduced to the idea that you should. You don't know what you don't know. You are TAUGHT to test nitrox. You are TAUGHT to be wary of bad tasting air. Maybe the dive agencies should change what they are teaching. (Though I don't buy that 3% of tanks are contaminated. If they were, Cozumel dive industry could not cover that up. With the volume of tanks used, that's massive)
 
Well being a gizmo kind of guy, I took some interest in this thread. After lots of searching for the Analox EII CO, only to find it a discontinued item, I did chat with a company rep who sent me this link…soon you will be able to get a 2-in-1 device, nitrox and CO. Apparently there was not enough of a demand for the Analox unit to keep making them.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...dual-gas-analyzer-for-scuba-diver/description
 
Common sources of contamination introduce a taste. I'm not saying not testing is smart. But most divers don't test. And many because they've never even been introduced to the idea that you should. You don't know what you don't know. You are TAUGHT to test nitrox. You are TAUGHT to be wary of bad tasting air. Maybe the dive agencies should change what they are teaching. (Though I don't buy that 3% of tanks are contaminated. If they were, Cozumel dive industry could not cover that up. With the volume of tanks used, that's massive)

"Contaminated" casts a very wide net. A tank could be "contaminated" meaning it has traces of CO but are so low as to be meaningless, still contaminated. Like the thought that all red meat contains some degree of E coli and everyone eating red meat is being minutely poisoned everytime you eat it, but the E coli level is so small that the bodies immune system is fighting it so quickly that it is un-noticeable to anyone. Maybe 3% are contaminated, but maybe 99% of that 3% are contaminated on a minute level as to be meaningless?

I believe PADI removed the air testing requirements of their 5 star shops a few years back over the death and lawsuit in Roatan of the 2 divers at Cocoview over CO. After that lawsuit which went after everyone on product liability bases which has a lower burden of proof than proving negligence, this scared the crap out of PADI where they thought they would be too exposed in the industry so they dropped the requirement. Not exactly the outcome you'd want as a result of a case that was trying to make the industry safer.
 
I believe PADI removed the air testing requirements of their 5 star shops a few years back over the death and lawsuit in Roatan of the 2 divers at Cocoview over CO. After that lawsuit which went after everyone on product liability bases which has a lower burden of proof than proving negligence, this scared the crap out of PADI where they thought they would be too exposed in the industry so they dropped the requirement. Not exactly the outcome you'd want as a result of a case that was trying to make the industry safer.
That's correct. A Texan tourist diver and a local DM died in that accident, tanks from the most popular resort on the island. I don't remember his name, I've talked to some of his friends, but again - most of the facts were kept quiet to protect tourism & the resort owners.

Padi answers to stockholders first & foremost - at that time Seidler Equity Partners, now owned by Lincolnshire Management. The requirements then were flawed, but now there are none.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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