Carabiners no more

[DevonDiver]

I see now why they call them death clips and suicide clips.

There's a lot of wisdom behind many of the diving clichés...

 

[Akimbo]

You can get 316 stainless steel locking Carabiners for $10

New 316 Stainless Steel Carabiners 4" with lock

and a 316 Stainless Steel 3-1/8" x 3/8 Quick Links for under $6. Many Home Deposts have 304 SS Quick Links for even less.

New 316 Stainless Steel Quick Link 3-1/8"

You can even get stainless steel snap shackles for $10-$20 depending on size

Shackle Hardware

Why fool with anodized aluminum in salt water unless things are weight critical?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

look at this video.. skip to 29 minutes,, the wreck diver comming on board with metal to metal connections, a suicide clip all used on a night dive on a wreck. These clips are very, very common... It bugs the hell out of me. If you are gonna use a stupid clip, don't be RETARDED and attach it with a metal connection!

[video=youtube;dBWPnmAWmDc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBWPnmAWmDc&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[DennisS]

My caribiner incident is funny looking back at it, but it wasn't at the time. I had some caribiners to attach gear to my kayak. I entered the water by sliding off the side of the kayak, the caribiner hooked the bottom of my swim suit and slid up to the waist band where it snapped closed. The inertia of my weight and speed jammed it in where I couldn't get the bathing suit out. I was half in and half out of the kayak for about 5 minutes, attached by a cinched suit. I thought about slitting the suit but ended up popping the attachment eye out of the kayak. If the kayak flipped it would have been a lot more interesting. I took it off and worked the suit out of the clip while hanging naked off the side of the kayak

 

[Akimbo]

... It bugs the hell out of me. If you are gonna use a stupid clip, don't be RETARDED and attach it with a metal connection!...

You mean like this?

… I had one on my weightbelt for years and can attest that it has inadvertently clipped on line a number of times. I just reached down [-]in[/-] and unclipped it, but it was definitely a potential problem that could have escalated into dangerous situation if several other things went wrong at the same time. The only reason I didn’t change it sooner is it was welded in to the D-ring before the belt was built in the early 1970s. I have since replaced it with an open bale swivel $nap shackle.…

dumpsterDiver makes an interesting point but may gloss over the bigger issue.

Suicide clips and their stronger cousin, the non-locking Carabiner, are probably not the best choice for any gear mounted to a diver for many reasons. However, the reaction to the rare entanglement related fatalities may also be over-blown. My experiences with them left me feeling it wasn’t that big a problem, as indicated above.

My personal opinion is mounting any clip that is an entanglement concern is imprudent, whether it can be cut away or not. Better to select a clip that does not concern you at all and make it fast. The fact is that every D-ring, strap, and protrusion increases our entanglement risk and we must be prepared to deal with entanglement of all kinds... of course this is from a wreck and California Kelp diver

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You mean like this?



View attachment 135112View attachment 135113

If you want me to call you a retard, just ask... Actually having that on a belt may not be as bad because the belt can be ditched. The guy had it on his BC which can not be ditched.

 

[Akimbo]

...Actually having that on a belt may not be as bad because the belt can be ditched. The guy had it on his BC which can not be ditched.

That was definitely a consideration in taking about 30 years to change it to a snap shackle. I use that clip primarily for tools so they are dumped with the belt if/when it comes to that.

The interesting part is I have had D-Rings hang up about as often as the suicide clip accidently grabbing a line — but the D-rings were much harder to disengage in black water. This may be because I didn’t expect it and had to back-up in confined spaces.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

That was definitely a consideration in taking about 30 years to change it to a snap shackle. I use that clip primarily for tools so they are dumped with the belt if/when it comes to that.

The interesting part is I have had D-Rings hang up about as often as the suicide clip accidently grabbing a line — but the D-rings were much harder to disengage in black water. This may be because I didn’t expect it and had to back-up in confined spaces.

Perhaps you are missing part of the hazard of the suicide clips? If I large diameter rope makes it past the gate and the clip closes, it may be impossible to free it. Only solution is to cut the rope.

If a STEEL CABLE should ever do something similar, you are pretty much screwed..

I used to keep a 5-inch diameter metal closed ring on my weight belt. Once at 80 feet, inside a wreck, with my tank removed and holding my breath, I was crawling upside down (and alone) in an upside down barge, trying to SQUEEZE into a very narrow opening (to remove a spearshaft and fish).. when that damn ring got caught on something as I was backing out and making my way back to my tank....I think I saw God a little that day... Luckily the metal loop was simply a metal (aluminum) ring that holds the net entrance of a lobster trap open and when I freaked upon entanglement, it broke open.. I might still be diving.

No more big rings on my weightbelt either...

 

[Akimbo]

Perhaps you are missing part of the hazard of the suicide clips? If I large diameter rope makes it past the gate and the clip closes, it may be impossible to free it...

I probably should have been clearer but that is what I was eluding to here:

…Suicide clips and their stronger cousin, the non-locking Carabiner, are probably not the best choice for any gear mounted to a diver for many reasons…

Carabiners suffer the same problem to a little lesser extent. The biggest problem with suicide clips and Carabiners is almost every hardware store has them in Brass and Stainless. It is harder to learn that better options exist and where to get them.

In the end, there isn’t much that I won’t ditch including the whole rig. But every step takes time and it is always best to avoid the risk in the first place. It is also important to accept that it is impractical to avoid all entanglement risks so knowing how to deal with them is a necessary skill… until somebody comes up with a good diver shrink-wrap