Canadian woman presumed dead - Roatan, Honduras

[JIMMY PHILLIPS]

Very unfortunate and I would not dog pile on Terry over things we assume. I, for instance assume the DM was tank banging and motioning to and for the victim alone and was the center of the DM focus with all attempts to save the victim. I also assume this happened very quickly in the time it became obvious something wasn't right to others. If I assumed the DM was trying to communicate with an INDIVIDUAL, I would not immediately react. Sounded to me as though this was the situation. Certainly some things afterwards such as the seperation actions were not the best thing, but I also assume it was done in an attempt to help as misguided as it might have been. I would not pounce on Terry but say thank you for the details of this tragedy that we can learn from.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Personally I think everyone should ease up on @Terry Harrison

He was kind enough to post an eye witness account.

Yes for sure in the comfort of our own homes in front of a computer it's easy to point fingers at the obvious mistakes seen in the cold light of day. However I'm not so sure they would have been quite so obvious in the water at the time.

The diver Clay plunging to 173' wasn't smart, I can't comment on the DM as who knows what was going through his mind. It's not as if he had the time to make an assessment. I think he tried his best. If the DM had caught the lady and she was still breathing then he could have made a slowish ascent, If not I guess he could have sent her to the surface.

Certainly thought provoking as to what I might have done if I were the DM

 

[simcoediver]

"The DM stated he saw Maurene and she had her arms folder and her head tilted to the side as she was dropping feet first. She never responded physically to his gestures or tank banging. He lost sight of her after he got down around 200'. "

That does not sound like someone with a failed BCD or over weighted. Such a person would, I would think, be trying to swim or slow their descent or drop weights, etc.. Especially somebody with 700 dives who knows that plunging down is a no-no.
This sounds like some one who is out of it be it for heart, vertigo, stroke, flooded regulator and water inhalation or what ever. Not that overweight may not contribute if there are other factors.

I agree with Steve, it sounds like a medical issue, considering her age.

 

[scubafanatic]

I agree with those guessing a medical issue, with narcosis perhaps compounding things. Thanks for sharing your eye witness info, Terry, and don't take all the 'Monday morning quarterbacking' too seriously, we've got an abundance of 'armchair generals' around here.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Personally I think everyone should ease up on @Terry Harrison

He was kind enough to post an eye witness account.

Yes for sure in the comfort of our own homes in front of a computer it's easy to point fingers at the obvious mistakes seen in the cold light of day. However I'm not so sure they would have been quite so obvious in the water at the time.

The diver Clay plunging to 173' wasn't smart, . . .

Okay, agreed. Still, maybe one reminder to take away from this incident is something we're taught in the Rescue course: a would-be rescuer should do everything possible not to turn into a second victim. The DM felt obligated and perhaps was more capable to effect a rescue than other divers. Others may have good intentions, but should return to the boat as directed.

 

[Terry Harrison]

Seems like 14 to 16lbs of weight would be excessive for that location. Was she wearing a thick wetsuit? She was wearing a full suit, but I don't know the mil. She was around 5'8" and 180 lbs. as a guess.

Do you think she had a BCD failure? Medical emergency? My guess is a medical issue. The DM stated he saw her and she was not responding in any way to stop her decent.

Also did your dive buddy leave you and go down to 175' trying to help her? Yes he did. I didn't know if his training was advanced (later find out he's just open water cert.). I had to stop because I'm only Open water cert. NAUI, and I could not justify three people going that deep.

Father and son separating? Didn't know that until after I stopped at 100' and moved back up to 80'. Not sure why it happened, I didn't ask.

Sounds like a avalanche of badness all happening at once. My condolences to her family and everyone involved.[/QUOTE]

 

[Terry Harrison]

I may be missing something obvious here Terry, but why did the 4 of you "continue the dive" after being signalled to go up by the DM? Let alone to 173 feet? The way you've worded this, it doesn't sound like a down current was involved.

DM was barley visible when we started moving his way. Thought he might have see a whale shark or something else. He never signaled to go up to us. It didn't occur that it was a rescue until I was around 80-100' and at that point it was my decision to stop my decent. As to why Clay continued, he said he felt the DM shouldn't go by himself and my have needed help. Of course this conversation was after returning to the surface. No down current.

 

[Terry Harrison]

Did you not understand why the DM was banging his tank?

Was this procedure not explained to you as part of the pre-dive briefing? If not, AKR deserves some of the blame for this. Continuous banging on the ladder or tank is always a sign to immediately return to the boat.

And you saw him motioning to return to the boat and instead chose to continue your dive? Why?

The DM's there bang on the tank to get your attention, for pointing things out or checking gauges etc... I have never heard a DM continually bang a tank so I may have missed this as an emergency sign. I never saw him motioning to return to the boat. He told us when we returned to the boat that he had seen her, and motioned with his hand to come up. That the sign he gave her, not the rest of our group.

 

[Terry Harrison]

Terry, I do want to thank you for joining SB and bringing us your report. Just witnessing such a tragedy can give anyone undeserved stress, and talking it out can be very helpful.

I'd like to be more supportive, but some of your statements do seem alarming! I am sorry, but these are questionable.

So everyone split up at depths of 100 feet or more? I don't think I'll be the only one to suggest this was risky and y'all are lucky the accident didn't snowball, but I don't guess you had any control over the other three.

We were al following the DM at the point of 80-100' and at that point, that's when it became clear that there was an emergency. I was watching the DM and my buddy. When Clay continued, I tried to get his attention (also used my tank banger) he kept going and I stopped. I then found that the other pair had gotten separated.

Why did he solo bounce so deep? Did he think he could help? I think that was his intention.

I don't guess any of y'all wear diving doubles, or even a pony? No, single 80's

And where did you get the idea that in water decompression was a good idea. I know we hear about it, but it's not safe, and a short recompression followed by ascent can make matters worse.

I had just read a couple of articles in DAN and since our boat could not leave the scene, and no other boats were within 15-20 minutes to come to our location this appeared to be the best option for such a deep dive, more for the DM than Clay.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Okay, agreed. Still, maybe one reminder to take away from this incident is something we're taught in the Rescue course: a would-be rescuer should do everything possible not to turn into a second victim. The DM felt obligated and perhaps was more capable to effect a rescue than other divers. Others may have good intentions, but should return to the boat as directed.

Oh I totally agree with you. As it transpires (posted after your post). The divers were OW, so may not have considered this.

Certainly it's enough for each of us to consider as to what we might have personally done.

Had I seen someone going down seemingly out of control, I can't guarantee that I wouldn't have given chase myself (unless I'd seen the DM head down). I also can't answer at what depth I'd have stopped. I know the answer sitting here but that's not the same as being in the water.

I wonder what others would have done