SkimFisher
Contributor
Also, there is a difference between being ignorant and new. Not sure if anyone pointed that out yet...
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I haven't bothered to read all 500 replies, but I agree with many of the counter-points made to the initial post. I can also see the other side's POV as well.
I'm a new diver and I am very aware of the fact that not all experienced divers like to dive with the noobies. Hey, that's your right and quite frankly it goes both ways - I don't want to dive with someone that doesn't want to dive with me. So my feelings aren't hurt if someone says "no thanks". I don't want to learn from someone that finds it a burden to teach.
I don't think inexperience makes you a bad person or unfit for one activity or another. An OW cert is basically a license to practice, nothing more. It doesn't make me an expert.
IMO, those that find it a burden to teach do more harm than a diver that doesn't know any better.
It's not really "we" that needs to focus. It's the OP and a small group of people. In my limited experience, the vast majority of divers I run into are already safe and considerate and more than willing to either learn, if they're a novice, or help out if they're more experienced. This thread just happened to be one persons web rant.Maybe instead of rants about unskilled divers, we could focus on safety and consideration for others, as there might be some valid concerns ignored when reacting to ugly generalisms being tossed around. So, as a newer diver here's my take, for better or worse:
Although I haven't read all of the replies either, I don't think that the OP is putting down new divers (I'm not defending the OP BTW). I think it comes down to (and I'm assuming a lot here) that many new divers are just not able to look after themselves despite the fact they are certified. Some certifications are handed out that require the new diver to be directly supervised by a DM or Instructor. If the diveboat wasn't prepared for an onslaught of such divers, it may not be reasonable for the DMs to comply with what was expected (hence my suggestion for better communication).
The new diver is not at fault here; nor is the DM or Instructor. The Dive Operator must make sure that the Clients are aware of the parameters of the dive and choose either to turn away those which the dive cannot accommodate and charge accordingly for the necessary supervision. Perhaps this is a benefit to those who have taken more extensive training (and were charged accordingly)whereby they don't need supervision. There is of course the problem of students being charged for OW training and not being competent to dive without supervision. A problem created by the certifying Instructor and likely the LDS where the training was given.
Hello everyone! The few that know me know I'm a lurker here. I also have a butt load of dives (and I'm an instructor) so occasionally I feel strong enough about a subject where I have a "NEED" to post.
That being said...
Are you a vacation diver? Do you 'expect' someone to carry all of your gear...babysit you underwater (not just be a buddy), are you just not sure of normal boat ettiqutte, does your car/suv/truck smell like anything other than moldy scuba gear?
Ok....IF you answered YES to any of the above...you have no business putting yourself on a boat 'assuming' someone will take care of you. Unless you have paid (dearly) to a licensed DM for personal assistance DO NOT go on a charter assuming your buddy will do all of this for you. Sure, I've done it...and will do it on occasion for a regular dive buddy, who I know does not expect it from me or anyone else, just being nice.
IF you are not experienced enough(be honest with yourself..or ask me..I'm not shy..I'll tell you straight up), have ongoing health issues, or are for whatever reason you feel 'dependent' on others for you to have a good dive...the best possible solution would be for you to ONLY dive on larger boats, and hire a DM for your personal assistance. Your friends DO NOT want to carry your gear (yes ladies that means you too) They are there to enjoy diving..not spend their day worried about if YOU can finish the dive...or the day.
So...before you go diving...
After your gear check...
ask yourself...
-Can I haul my gear ALONE to the charter(tanks included)? Back to your car after the dive?
-Can I haul my butt out of the water alone if the conditions get ugly (or even if they are mild)?
-Could I rescue myself?
-Will my buddy feel safe with me as their buddy?
-Would you feel good about yourself putting someone elses life at risk just because you are too dependent?
If you could not answer ALL of the questions with YES, then you need to rethink any diving without being under the direct supervision of a paid DM or INSTRUCTOR. (no solicitation implied)
Your friends and associates are not there to hold your hand. They had to do it themselves...so should you.
You could very possibly be ruining someones fun insuring your own.