Can people really get scuba certified without knowing how to swim?

[j yaeger]

i had two students come in for openwater course
that didn't want their faces to "get wet", much less know how to swim!!!!
could not dunk heads enough to get under the lane bouys in shallow water
"but we want to scuba with our bf's!!!!"

swim lessons,then we'll see about the scuba stuff......
....i think you should at the very least.....
LIKE WATER!!!!

..."but jiiiiiiimmy.how are we eeeeever goin' to do dis????"

ymca?
have fun
yaeg

 

[scubadada]

Divers should not only know how to swim but should be relatively competant. This is for their safety and the safey of others. Conditions vary considerably and are are not always predictable and change over time. I would always be able to assist my buddy under essentially any circumstances, I would hope the reverse would be true. Sorry, but this nonswimmer scuba diver stuff is complete BS.

 

[k ellis]

Divers should not only know how to swim but should be relatively competant. This is for their safety and the safey of others. Conditions vary considerably and are are not always predictable and change over time. I would always be able to assist my buddy under essentially any circumstances, I would hope the reverse would be true. Sorry, but this nonswimmer scuba diver stuff is complete BS.

I disagree with the its BS statement. Though I now know how to swim I would not know how had I have not been certified. I never really learned to swim until I went to Divemaster. The statement in my own opinion would be better stated as "Any diver who cant swim and has no desire to learn is BS." Again I only know how to swim thanks in large to my extreme love of Diving.

 

[RTee]

Divers should not only know how to swim but should be relatively competant. This is for their safety and the safey of others. Conditions vary considerably and are are not always predictable and change over time. I would always be able to assist my buddy under essentially any circumstances, I would hope the reverse would be true. Sorry, but this nonswimmer scuba diver stuff is complete BS.

Interesting...how do you judge competency when somebody was qualified in far far away land and/or years voir meme decade(s) ago? You cannot until you end up in the water with said individual. Considering that the majority of divers out there seem to be coming, more and more, straight out from the Mc Diver's production line with the vast majority of them just happening to also be very sporadic warm water exotic locations only type of divers it is pretty darn hard, just by looking at individuals (granted some will make it easier than others) to judge their level of competency. In most cases, this will only become very obvious when you hit the water or the **** hits the fans.

Until you do that, all you are doing is judging a book by its cover. Based on my life experience, those who are inexperienced or readily admit having deficiencies have very rarely put me in akward situations because by them being upfront about it allowed me to risk manage as a supervisor or to act consequently. I wish I could say the same for the self proclaimed expert individuals I have run into but sadly I can't.

 

[gcarter]

Definitions are important.

When I did my course, I could do what I call survival swim. I could stay afloat, and I do some weird combination of a breast stroke / side stroke / who knows what with no recognizable form of kick. I could back float and move, but not a proper backstroke. No crawl or any other recognizable form. It allowed me to meet the required standard, but if you had asked me if I could swim I would have laughed. But I could take care of myself, and of my buddy as well as someone without rescue training could be expected to.

I certainly had no problem swimming back and forth to the boat in Boracay. Did several shore dives in Victoria this summer, no problem swimming out and back. No great speed, not at all pretty, but I got there.

Now I can sort of swim. I took some classes last winter and can now do a rudimentary crawl and backstroke. It almost looks like swimming. I am looking into doing some more classes.

So if you mean by swim that one needs to be able to stay afloat and locomote in some fashion, I could swim. If you mean look pretty with good form and able to do laps, I couldn't swim. Still can't.

It is my opinion that if you mean the latter, there are a lot who think they CAN swim who really can't so much. And there are many who will say they can't swim when asked, because they have no training, no form, have never gotten into it as a form of recreation, or some combination thereof but who are quite capable of taking care of themselves. You really don't need to be able to do laps.

Definitions are important.

 

[scallop]

I believe a persons comfort level in the water is important. Odds are if someone is comfortable in the water they will be able to keep their head above the surface and manage to make some sort of motion. Not sure for how long or how far they would get but the basics are there. That being said there is NO way I would get on a dive or even a snorkel boat without being able to swim and having the ability to self rescue that swimming provides, just relying on a thin material bladder that Mr. Murphy will choose to pop at the most inoporutune moment. Both my son (11) and myself (42) were recently certified through SDI and we had to do a 200 yard non stop swim and a 10 or 15 min float with swimsuit only. No mask, fins, snorkel or wetsuit allowed. I personally think that is how it should be done, if you cannot do those minor things you have no business scuba diving (disabled and handicapped excepted).

 

[RTee]

if you cannot do those minor things you have no business scuba diving (disabled and handicapped excepted).

Scallop...I am far from being inconsiderate but would you care to expand on that point...because so far all those against bring it back to one thing and one thing only...Standards/Safety or perhaps what I will refer to as Perceived Safety. Two examples from this thread that come to mind are: man overboard and being able to provide assitance to other divers. So please enlight me as to why you would make such a differentiation and what is your rationale behind it?

 

[gcarter]

I believe a persons comfort level in the water is important. Odds are if someone is comfortable in the water they will be able to keep their head above the surface and manage to make some sort of motion. Not sure for how long or how far they would get but the basics are there. That being said there is NO way I would get on a dive or even a snorkel boat without being able to swim and having the ability to self rescue that swimming provides, just relying on a thin material bladder that Mr. Murphy will choose to pop at the most inoporutune moment. Both my son (11) and myself (42) were recently certified through SDI and we had to do a 200 yard non stop swim and a 10 or 15 min float with swimsuit only. No mask, fins, snorkel or wetsuit allowed. I personally think that is how it should be done, if you cannot do those minor things you have no business scuba diving (disabled and handicapped excepted).

My brother in law, like his father before him, and his father before him etc. is a fisherman. Can't swim a stroke. Not him, or his father, or his grandfather. They make their living on the water (cold North Atlantic). Many boat captains can't swim a stroke. At least a diver has some buoyancy assistance between the wetsuit and the BCD. Equipment provides an advantage. As does training.

And I will also ask: how can you be so adament on this point and yet make an exception for someone with a physical disability? It is either a must have or it is not. What allows them to dive safely in spite of not being able to swim? Training, equipment, good buddies (who can not rely on THEM for rescue). Why is it OK (in your mind) in one case but not the other?

Your position, although it may be heartfelt, has no logical consistancy.

FWIW, I admire the courage and attitude it takes to become a disabled diver.

 

[scallop]

I am not trying to be confrontational at all, just expressing my personal opinion. I cannot perceive of someone doing something they know next to nothing about and relying on others to save them if God forbid something happens. Man overboard really has no bearing on this discussion because that is a matter of an accident or some other circumstances forcing that person into the water. Should a person have to pass a swim test before going onto a boat? No not at all. But a person that is actively choosing to place themselves in a position they clearly should not be in is where I find issue. By making a concious choice to take yourself out of your comfort zone or element into an area you have no experience in is irresponsible in my eyes. Am I the best swimmer out there? Heck no but I would never jump into the water without at least the rudiments of knowledge to help myself. While there are probably countless people watching over them your personal safety really boils down to one person and one person only, yourself. Would be like me jumping on a motorcycle, there will be plenty of people to scrape me up from the pavement but why the heck did I get on the bike if I knew I could not ride it?

 

[scallop]

Handicapped or disabled divers would be a class of their own. I do not know any nor have I been exposed to any but would assume they have taken steps to have the proper support available if needed.