Can I dive without an octo?

[boulderjohn]

Basicly a normal ascent, however it will probably be faster, trying to maintain less than 60 fpm which is the maximum "safe" ascent rate.

When I took my instructor exam, a "normal" ascent meant 60 FPM. The examiner clearly told us that the standard for the skill was distance, not time, and we should expect the student to be going faster than 60 FPM--just not a panicked sprint.

 

[grf88]

I am sure that there must be many on this board, that like me, learned to dive when neither octopus, SPG or power inflator were standard pieces of gear. In fact I used a horse collar rather than a modern BC.

 

[uncfnp]

I am sure that there must be many on this board, that like me, learned to dive when neither octopus, SPG or power inflator were standard pieces of gear. In fact I used a horse collar rather than a modern BC.

We use to do surgery without anesthesia too but I don’t recommend it either.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am sure that there must be many on this board, that like me, learned to dive when neither octopus, SPG or power inflator were standard pieces of gear. In fact I used a horse collar rather than a modern BC.

My FaceBook feed frequently includes memes that talk about the way things used to be with safety devices like seat belts, child car seats, etc. They usually end with a statement like "And we all somehow survived!"

Well, everyone reading the meme somehow survived, but there were a lot of people not reading the meme because they did not survive. Lots of people survived before those safety features were invented, but too many didn't. That's why those safety features were invented.

 

[lexvil]

I am sure that there must be many on this board, that like me, learned to dive when neither octopus, SPG or power inflator were standard pieces of gear. In fact I used a horse collar rather than a modern BC.

This always runs through my mint when the panicked statements start, “you’ll die if you…” today is better, equipment is better, training “may” be better…

I support the idea of many new ideas and techniques but people need to chill a bit. Can you dive without an Octo? Yes, should you dive without an octo? No, it would be somewhat foolish now even if it were the norm in the past.

 

[boulderjohn]

This always runs through my mint when the panicked statements start, “you’ll die if you…” today is better, equipment is better, training “may” be better…

I support the idea of many new ideas and techniques but people need to chill a bit. Can you dive without an Octo? Yes, should you dive without an octo? No, it would be somewhat foolish now even if it were the norm in the past.

About 10 years ago, I was teaching a refresher class, and one of the students had not been diving in many years. He had never seen an octo. He said something along the lines of, we didn't need them in the past, so I won't dive with them now. I told him that was fine if he wanted to do that, but most people, including me, would refuse to dive with him.

After that discussion I pondered the kind of mindset that would automatically reject an obvious improvement just because it was not how it was done in the past.

 

[lexvil]

About 10 years ago, I was teaching a refresher class, and one of the students had not been diving in many years. He had never seen an octo. He said something along the lines of, we didn't need them in the past, so I won't dive with them now. I told him that was fine if he wanted to do that, but most people, including me, would refuse to dive with him.

After that discussion I pondered the kind of mindset that would automatically reject an obvious improvement just because it was not how it was done in the past.

It’s like b/c’s and computers, we didn’t need them only because they weren’t available, don’t need bigger tanks, just couldn’t do a very long dive, SPG what’s that for?? Not every “new” things works out but pretty much every “new” thing makes diving safer and easier once it catches on.

 

[Bob DBF]

After that discussion I pondered the kind of mindset that would automatically reject an obvious improvement just beca

Ya got me on that one, although a diver may want to continue to use the equipment with which they are familiar. I moved to an SPG and BC when I could afford them and needed them on my dives, although occasionally I still dive vintage. It took longer on the alternate second because I was a solo diver, and my usual buddies were proficient with buddy breathing. As I started diving with newer divers, it was in my best interest to have an alternate, and besides it doesn't stop one from buddy breathing.

 

[Bob DBF]

Not every “new” things works out but pretty much every “new” thing makes diving safer and easier once it catches on.

More like every new thing that makes diving safer and easier will catch on, other new gear might just be a fad, or attempted improvement that doesn't work out, and then there is a lot of crap. A diver will probably have a bit of each, if not on them, then back at their dive locker.

 

[boulderjohn]

It’s like b/c’s and computers, we didn’t need them only because they weren’t available, don’t need bigger tanks, just couldn’t do a very long dive, SPG what’s that for?? Not every “new” things works out but pretty much every “new” thing makes diving safer and easier once it catches on.

Of course, just because something is new does not mean it is an improvement, and just because something is an improvement does not mean you need to have it. You have to evaluate each innovation to decide.

An example is air integrated computers. My first computer was air integrated via a hose (Suunto Cobra). I really liked the air integration feature. Eventually I preferred wrist computers and decided the air integration feature was something I did not need any more. Then people were using air integration through transmitter, and I saw enough failures to connect to make me leery. Besides, I had reached the point in my life when I didn't see any real value in air integration.

Then I started backmounted technical diving, and all I had was an SPG clipped off to a D-ring. I had to unclip it and bring it up to take a look, but that was not hard, and in technical diving you have loads of extra gas in reserve, so you don't need to check it often--you just need to make sure nothing's wrong every now and then. AI computers were improving, but I did not see the point in having one. Why spend the money for something with so little value?

Then I started doing sidemount in caves. Well, that was different. I had to switch back and forth from one tank to another as the pressures dropped, and the SPGs were not in a convenient location. Meanwhile, the newer AI computers had developed more reliable transmitters, so the information would be right there on my wrist. Suddenly AI became a lot more attractive. Still, that would be a lot of money to ditch two non-AI computers and get two new AI computers. I was about to do it, but then my cave diving activity plummeted. If I get that part of my live revved up again, I will go with two new AI computers.

Summary: Innovations need to be evaluated carefully. If they make sense for your diving, do it. If they don't, leave them alone. But the fact that you have always done something differently in the past should not be a reason. Francis Bacon said something like that half a millennium ago.