Calling a dive

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I was diving of the coast of N.C. this summer, I got paired up with an instabuddy and after about 15 mins into our first dive he signaled he wanted to go up. We were at about 40 feet. Inside I was pissed and disappointed but didnt show it and reassured him it wasn’t a problem. Turns out he had an anxiety attack and couldn’t catch his breath. I would much rather be disappointed on the boat with a diver that aborted, then riding back to shore with a body. I’m a believer in anyone can call a dive at anytime. It’s a bummer and no one likes it but it’s better then ending up in a diver accident report. Just goes to show it’s important to dive with like minded people you trust.
You're talking about one buddy pair. Others often refer to a whole group having to abort.
I would react and feel the same way as you with the situation you described. As you know, for many of us it's impossible to go on a charter boat with a buddy you know and trust.
 
As someone who does a fair amount of tech diving off of boats, I will add that the hardest part of the dive is probably the combination of suiting up while sitting down and then trying to stand. Once you are standing, it is not as bad, but getting up from a seated position with all that heavy gear can be very difficult. Then you have to walk to the entry point wearing fins and all that heavy gear while the boat is rocking in the waves.

IMO, boat crews could generally do more to give some assistance during this phase of the dives.

I always ask for a hand up from the bench and a steadying hand on my tank to the transom. My usual boat has perhaps 6ft of open space between the benches and the transom, and I refuse to walk that with fins on. I just don’t feel safe walking on a rocking boat with all that gear on without any assistance. Frankly, most of the time, I pause at the transom, hang on, and put my feet up behind me for fins. Silly maybe, but it works for me and it’s quicker to get in the water so I’m not holding anyone up.
 
You're talking about one buddy pair. Others often refer to a whole group having to abort.
I would react and feel the same way as you with the situation you described. As you know, for many of us it's impossible to go on a charter boat with a buddy you know and trust.

yes I agree, if we were in a larger group there would have been no reason for us all to abort the dive.
 
We are straying off the OP.
If the moderators want to move this OK.


The issue about diving solo, aborting dives, when to thumb a dive, when to cancel diving is difficult, and sometimes contentious, sometimes very straight forward.

Cancelling diving.
This apt, having just had notification from the trip organiser for this weekend that the skipper has cancelled the diving. The skipper cancelling means we get our charter money back, but not the money for the booked accommodation.

Normal UK booking rules mean that if the skipper cancels we get our charter money back, if we had cancelled we wouldn't!

Earlier this year, we had a weeks diving. Mid week if was very windy, the skipper was planning to take us out (rough crossing) and have us dive in the lee of the Island, (a backup site). We elected not to do a 2nd class dive in rough conditions - we still paid for the days charter, we cancelled.

There is often a financial issue to cancelling diving. Both for the skipper and the group.
We don't book with skippers that will never cancel. The good skippers will cancel. Some skippers have gone back to taking fisherman, they don't need the weather to be as kind for fisherman than they do for divers.

Aborting a dive
Some of you will have seen my comment in an earlier thread;

"It's better to be on the boat wishing you where in the water, than in the water wishing you where on the boat."

I strongly believe in this.

I am however very aware, that there are pressures.
When diving with new divers I always reinforce the point that they can abort if they want to, for any reason, during the briefing.
With more experienced divers I don't.

I have spent over 10 years wanting to dive the Scilly Isles. This year I finally made it. We had a great week.
I missed one dive, I choose not to get in, having kit problems. (As it turned out, I did have a fault on the CCR, good call on my part.) My buddy dropped in and made a three. His call, he was experienced, we all know each other, he had paid his money for the trip.

Diver Seperation
The usual rule is;

"If you loose your buddy, look around for a minute or so, then ascend."

On a trip earlier this year, in poor visibility, my buddy and I Iost each other (we where both concentrating on cameras). We both did the above. We both dive with redundancy, but both ascended. We both considered carrying on the dive.
A mix of reasons, training, procedure, and the fact that the dive wasn't great anyway.
A dive later in the year, a different buddy and I separated, we both tagged on another 10 minutes before surfacing, partly because the dive was good, partly expecting to see each other, partly because we both had enough redundant gas to do the dive multiple times.

Solo Diving
I have dived on my own over the years, both planned and un-planned.

As an Instructor, I have been in first, put the trapeze in and checked the shot before the lead instructor and students have entered the water. I was more than comfortable with that, and enjoyed the solitude at the start.

I remember joining a group that did deep(er) diving on the south coast. My first dive with the group, I dived with one of the established members. I had run times (5min, 30min, and 35mins on the bottom), the plan was a 30minute dive, the options to extend to 35minutes. Conditions where good, and we pushed out to the longer time. We where back on the shot, and I signalled up and started up the shot. When I looked back, my buddy had moved back onto the wreck, I signalled up again, he gave me an OK, then didn't come back to the shot. There where others still on the wreck. I left and started my ascent, questioning if I should have gone back. He caught me up on the shot later. When we got back on the boat, he came over and apologised. He was in the wrong, he wanted to push on, even tho he new my gas / runtime restrictions.
He new he was in the wrong.
One of the group came up to me later and apologised for the rest of the group, I shouldn't have been put in that position. Especially when I was on 'trial' to see if I would fit in. The fact that I didn't make a big noise about it, but had run my agreed plan, and kept my displeasure between my buddy and myself had been noticed. I was accepted on the team for future trips.

When I was gaining experience on CCR, I had three initial rules, no more than 5 minutes of compulsory decompression, no diving on my own, nothing over 30m (100ft). I took a place on a boat for the weekend. I was buddy up with a CCR diver (CCR divers where unusual at this time), I told him I wouldn't run more than 5minutes of deco'. We did the dive, I got to 5minutes of deco, and signalled time to leave, he waved me goodbye, watched me get the DSMB off and start my ascent, then he carried on his dive. I would have been happier if I had known that was his intention when we got in. It was the first time I was in the water on my own on a CCR.

There are often competing pressures. Buddies, conditions, opportunity. The biggest issue is diving with people you don't know, mentally, I take it that I am on my own!

Gareth

I think there are different categories of diving. When we dive locally, from shore, someone aborts, even before we get in the water, no big deal. If I'm not kitted up, I'm up for going to get something to eat instead (which I've done). If I'm kitted up, I have no problem going solo.

Diving from a boat, I'm paying money. They have an issue, I have a responsibility (as I could be sued) to get them back to the surface and safely back on board. But if that is first dive, I may want to go solo on the second dive.

Obviously anytime you are on a boat, there's an emergency, get back on board.

When on vacation, from a boat, well ... this is where there can be an issue as people have spent money to get where they are going, vacation time is precious (especially if you live in a country where you get little). When I have gone diving in Maui, it is group diving and the DM who is leading but not keeping track of everyone (as everyone is kind of spread out), people low on air. So people as they drain their tanks, just go back by themselves or with their buddy. For me that kind of diving works.

First dive trip I took to Quintana Roo was shortly after my AOW. Fortunately I wasn't the biggest air hog, but when someone ran low, we all ascended. I felt for the guy who lived on Vancouver Island for 8 years and had 1000 dives, as he barely used his air (and he wasn't moving around like the rest of us noobs).

For my own dive vacations, I'll hire my own DM, and be sure that the only reason we'd abort a dive is if there is a medical emergency. The DM's job will be to help me find critters for taking pictures. If I am flying for 18 hours+, spending thousands of dollars, then hiring a DM is an insignificant cost. I'm selfish that way, but my selfishness stops at medical emergencies.
 
I find this whole conversation very interesting as a novice diver. I will say on the vacation dives I've done, they've tried to pair our skill levels so that our air usage is close.

I find the discussion about leaving a buddy in some circumstances interesting, and seems like a good thing to discuss during dive planning. I know my instructor and I discussed, especially for our upcoming night dives, what the lost buddy procedure was. (Obviously more for me than her LOL) but it just drills home the importance of doing good communication prior to getting into the water.
 
I find this whole conversation very interesting as a novice diver.

I'm glad, it's a conversation a lot of people don't hear differing viewpoints on in advance. There's a concern novices may feel unspoken pressure to participate in dives they're afraid of, of persist when they're not comfortable, to avoid ruining someone else's dive. Then again, no one wants their dive aborted without a 'good' reason, whatever that is (or argued to be).

And in the real world, there are a range of views on what buddy obligations are. Some see you as having a 'duty of care,' others less so (e.g.: 'not a baby sitter), some think you can part near the departure point (e.g.: under the boat), some that you should watch them reach the surface, some that you have to see them back on the boat. For this discussion I'm assuming fairly low current, high visibility conditions as commonly seen at mainstream regional Caribbean destinations.

No matter what any one of us thinks, or even if that one is right, not every one agrees. It is good to know that in advance.

Richard.
 
if we were in a larger group there would have been no reason for us all to abort the dive.
I'm definitely more of a buddy diver than a group diver, but even when I'm on vacation and in a group trailing a guide, I have a designated buddy. In that case, if I were to call the dive, I'd expect my buddy to follow me to the surface and perhaps see me safe onto the boat. I don't need the whole group following me up; they're free to continue the dive if they want to.
 
I do respectfully disagree that there should be a "I'm aborting but don't worry" signal. As everyone here has discussed, diving takes a lot of money, effort and preparation just to get in the water, even for a basic shore dive. Divers want to complete their dives--that is a given. Aborting a dive for no obvious reason is highly unusual, and in itself is a sign of a problem that needs attention. It may that the person aborting does not even appreciate the extent of the issue--but there is obviously an issue. They might think they feel "fine" but they were fine in reality they would not be aborting. Also, they might be feeling pressure not to "ruin" their buddy's dive--a big pressure as seen by comments here.

The accidents thread is replete with dead divers who said "I'm OK" and headed for the surface and were later found dead on the bottom. If the situation is bad enough for a diver to abort--that diver needs an escort to solid ground (or boat)--no exceptions.
 
I was taught and fully embrace that anyone can abort a dive at any time for any reason. Like said above, I do not believe someone would abort a dive for no reason. If they think they have to abort the dive and don't do so because they feel it will be an unpopular thing to do, it's likely it will lead to an escalated situation.
If I'm buddied I would definitely be aborting with them. Buddying to me doesn't cease if they indicate they are aborting. It does when we are safely out of the water.
Sure I would feel a little disappointment if my buddy blew threw their air quickly, but in my case it would be quickly muted by my desire to see them safely back on the boat.
 
This oft repeated loaded statement bears a closer look. Any diver can call his/her own dive any time for any reason. Whether any diver can call a buddy’s, or a group’s, dive any time for any reason is another matter.

Much more difficult to answer that one.

Richard.

Richard...

That's why I followed the quote...with my response...

Dives are terminated for all kinds of reasons...and not always the actual reason...there is usually a ''root cause''...and until the root cause issues are ''identified'' and ''corrected''...this same individual is likely to terminate dive after dive...

To use a simple example...one that is dear to my heart...one of the most common problems with rebreathers...is water leaking into the closed system...the issue has to be identified...and corrected...if it is not...the apparatus will continue to leak...and continue to cause the unit operator to terminate dives...correcting one problem...resolves the other...

I've Dive Mastered more than one boat charter where a diver for one reason or another has terminated the dive...some one usually gets charged with the responsibility of getting the affected diver back onto the boat safely and everyone else on the charter continues on...

I've never been on a charter where ''issues'' with one diver has terminated the planned event for everyone on the boat...that would be a very expensive trip for an North Carolina charter operator to make a six hour return run out into the open Atlantic and have to refund everyone's money...for issues involving a single diver...

Dive Safe...

Warren
 
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