Pietsweis
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Yes exactly. Is an online certification check not a way to determine if someone is suitably certified?
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C-Card Recognition: Myth or Fact?
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Yes exactly. Is an online certification check not a way to determine if someone is suitably certified?
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drrich2
Contributor
Do all 'legitimate' agencies have online verification?
It would be tedious and time-consuming while people are lined up to get processed and get on the dive boat, but of course it's a nice fall back feature if someone forgets their card.
Now, if a dozen customers with a variety of agency affiliations all showed up without their cards, that would be a pain.
Richard.
It would be tedious and time-consuming while people are lined up to get processed and get on the dive boat, but of course it's a nice fall back feature if someone forgets their card.
Now, if a dozen customers with a variety of agency affiliations all showed up without their cards, that would be a pain.
Richard.
My original c-card was paper. I keep a scanned and laminated version of it in my wallet so the original doesn't deteriorate. I also post all of my c-cards on my website so a dive op can check easily if I happen to forget my wallet (a rare occurrence... I Often need the buck or two in it for something)
Oh, I forgot. I was denied drysuit rental once. My suit, turned out to have a bad issue so I thought to rent one. No, did not have a "Drysuit" card from Padi. See, once upon a time, you took a course and went on with your life. Then along came the Padi floor planning and customer selling system. Now you need a card to carry a camera, another card to identify a fish, yet another card to wear a drysuit, a scooter card, a bouyancy card, a snorkel card and I suppose there is a nude diver card.
Someone would have to be an ignoramus not to take a L.A. County or even a NAUI. But, then I have used my NAVED master diver card numerous times. American Express often works wonders.
In a world where everybody is trying to sue everybody else and our lives are controlled by lawyers and insurance companies, what does one expect.
N
Someone would have to be an ignoramus not to take a L.A. County or even a NAUI. But, then I have used my NAVED master diver card numerous times. American Express often works wonders.
In a world where everybody is trying to sue everybody else and our lives are controlled by lawyers and insurance companies, what does one expect.
N
So what is a "legitimate" agency? Let's compare two agencies.
Let's start with Scuba Divers of America (SDA). This is an Arizona-based agency. Although the name is not visible on this site, it is the same organization. I believe anyone who checks them out will agree it is a scam. If you read through the materials carefully and check out the claims, you will find it is a complete fraud. It says its world-wide referral form is accepted by all agencies, including PADI, but if you go to the PADI site you will find a clear statement that they do not recognize any training done by this organization. Check out the agency address on Google Earth (as I did a few years ago), and you will find it is a vacant lot. The agency and its related organizations were created by the owner after he was kicked out of NAUI. With nowhere else to go, he created his own agency. With all of its fraudulent claims, the company he formed to do the instruction still has a B+ rating with the Better Business Bureau, and people "duped" into taking their online nitrox course report that their cards are accepted for nitrox fills.
Now let's look at UTD. I think everyone would agree that this is a very legitimate agency, but its origin sounds a whole lot like the origin of Scuba Divers of America. Its owner was a part of the GUE leadership until they had a falling out. He was then a part of NAUI leadership until they had a falling out. He then formed his own agency, just as SDA did. UTD is certifying divers around the world. People are paying a lot of money for that certification, and I assume its graduates have their cards recognized without difficulty. (I have a number of cards from them, but I have never had to show them for anything.)
So what's the difference? I know that UTD is insured, and to get insured as a scuba training agency, UTD had to have its standards reviewed and accepted by the insurance agency. I doubt if SDA has done this, but I can't be sure. SDA says its standards are consistent with the RSTC standards, and if they are, they should have no trouble getting insurance--if they are willing to pay the premiums.
But is being insured the only barrier to legitimacy? I honestly have no idea. I am in fact baffled as to why SDA continues to perpetrate a fraud when it would apparently be very easy to become legitimate.
If I decide this afternoon to form a scuba agency, come up with a new name, copy some established agency's standards, and buy a card-making machine, how would I be any different from any other agency listed on the Wikipedia page? Does anyone know the difference, because I clearly don't?
Let's start with Scuba Divers of America (SDA). This is an Arizona-based agency. Although the name is not visible on this site, it is the same organization. I believe anyone who checks them out will agree it is a scam. If you read through the materials carefully and check out the claims, you will find it is a complete fraud. It says its world-wide referral form is accepted by all agencies, including PADI, but if you go to the PADI site you will find a clear statement that they do not recognize any training done by this organization. Check out the agency address on Google Earth (as I did a few years ago), and you will find it is a vacant lot. The agency and its related organizations were created by the owner after he was kicked out of NAUI. With nowhere else to go, he created his own agency. With all of its fraudulent claims, the company he formed to do the instruction still has a B+ rating with the Better Business Bureau, and people "duped" into taking their online nitrox course report that their cards are accepted for nitrox fills.
Now let's look at UTD. I think everyone would agree that this is a very legitimate agency, but its origin sounds a whole lot like the origin of Scuba Divers of America. Its owner was a part of the GUE leadership until they had a falling out. He was then a part of NAUI leadership until they had a falling out. He then formed his own agency, just as SDA did. UTD is certifying divers around the world. People are paying a lot of money for that certification, and I assume its graduates have their cards recognized without difficulty. (I have a number of cards from them, but I have never had to show them for anything.)
So what's the difference? I know that UTD is insured, and to get insured as a scuba training agency, UTD had to have its standards reviewed and accepted by the insurance agency. I doubt if SDA has done this, but I can't be sure. SDA says its standards are consistent with the RSTC standards, and if they are, they should have no trouble getting insurance--if they are willing to pay the premiums.
But is being insured the only barrier to legitimacy? I honestly have no idea. I am in fact baffled as to why SDA continues to perpetrate a fraud when it would apparently be very easy to become legitimate.
If I decide this afternoon to form a scuba agency, come up with a new name, copy some established agency's standards, and buy a card-making machine, how would I be any different from any other agency listed on the Wikipedia page? Does anyone know the difference, because I clearly don't?
drrich2
Contributor
I like your comparison. Putting it into a practical application on this thread, let's say a fairly new dive shop & charter boat op. opens in Puerto Rico, and the staff, still fairly green, are familiar with PADI, SSI, NAUI, maybe SDI, TDI and GUE. Or at least somebody in the shop is. They've got a trip booked up for a dozen divers, be at the shop by 8 a.m. for a 9 a.m. departure to get the liability forms & such done.
12 Divers are in line at the register. Diver #3 as a SDA cert. card; Diver #4 has a UTD card.
One guy's at the register, one's doing tank fills and one's trying to get everybody squared away on rental gear. Out on the boat is a captain and the guide, who's actually a PADI Instructor.
What are the odds the stuff will know SDA is thought be many to be bogus? If they let the guy dive and he panics at depth and bolts to the surface holding his breath, dying of an AGE, are they liable?
I encourage anybody with a 'very mainstream' universally recognized agency cert. to have a relevant card on-hand when practical. It just seems to be one more hedge against potential drama.
Richard.
12 Divers are in line at the register. Diver #3 as a SDA cert. card; Diver #4 has a UTD card.
One guy's at the register, one's doing tank fills and one's trying to get everybody squared away on rental gear. Out on the boat is a captain and the guide, who's actually a PADI Instructor.
What are the odds the stuff will know SDA is thought be many to be bogus? If they let the guy dive and he panics at depth and bolts to the surface holding his breath, dying of an AGE, are they liable?
I encourage anybody with a 'very mainstream' universally recognized agency cert. to have a relevant card on-hand when practical. It just seems to be one more hedge against potential drama.
Richard.
Tigerman
Contributor
Now if someone told me I need a card to be allowed to carry my several thousand dollar camera rig, I guess Id tell them to have a look at my flickr and let me know what they intend to teach me in the digital uw photography course and to show me their portfolio...
That skinny dipper card though, where can I find a cool instructor for that one?
If you want a "cool instructor" for skinny dipping, check out this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR3K2wk_OlgThat skinny dipper card though, where can I find a cool instructor for that one?
Warning: there really is nude diving in that video, so don't go there if you will be offended by it.
Tigerman
Contributor
Brrrr... thats a bit cooler than I expected
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But you have to admit she's pretty cool, yes?
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