Buying gear

[sammym]

So to that point, I was in my LDS on Saturday discussing the desire to purchase my own gear (and for clarification, I'm only looking for BCD, Regs, gauges, and maybe a wet suit. I already have my personal gear). The LDS owner was talking about BCDs and how once you start trimming some of the cost, you start to lose a lot of features very quickly, whether it be weight integrated pockets, trim weights, comfortable jacket, etc. She indicated to avoid anything under $500 as it's just not worth it. When I start looking around on-line it appears that all but the nicest BCDs are under $500. Is she just trying to get me to spend more than I need to, or is there some truth to this?

Yes they are just trying to get you to spend money...

Ask yourself the question - what features do you need? In the water all BCD's are comfortable. They are weightless. It's a bag of air that allows you to control buoyancy... Integrated weights can be nice but then can also be a pain. How often do they fall out? In the event of needing to be used how easy would they be to ditch? In terms of trim weights... I could answer properly but won't as it's not the right place here - but there are plenty of better and cheaper options.

The best divers in the world use a webbing harness and carry as little as possible. Diving equipment has not evolved much in the last 10/15 years (for recreational) - so they need to keep adding new "features" to get people to buy it. That's business. But don't be suckered into feeling you need that crap. Because you don't.

 

[dmaziuk]

She indicated to avoid anything under $500 as it's just not worth it. When I start looking around on-line it appears that all but the nicest BCDs are under $500. Is she just trying to get me to spend more than I need to, or is there some truth to this?

Well... I dived in rental BCDs to the tune of probably $200 in rent, then I paid $70 for the (someone has to say it) backplate and harness plus ~$200 for the wing plus some $100 for the misc. trimmings... so the total may well have been over $500. Of course, about $200 of that I paid for figuring out I didn't want a jacket BCD in the first place, so it all depends on how you count it...

Point being, there is an advantage to renting different kinds of stuff until you figure out what you like and don't like.

 

[LordElrond]

Now that I am certified and fairly certain I'll be able to dive once a month or so, I'm looking in to purchasing my own equipment. Because I need to buy for both myself and my wife, money is absolutely a factor.

My question really isn't as much what is a better BCD, who makes the best regulator, etc.? but rather - is it better to look at a pre-built package being offered by some of the bigger name vendors (like LeisurePro), or is it better and only marginally more expensive to piece-meal a kit together?

I don't have many dive shops locally, but would prefer to support them as opposed to ordering online, but they also seem to be significantly more expensive. So while I wouldn't mind spending a little more to go local, I do mind paying A LOT more to go local.

What has your experience been?

I'd suggest you to buy piece by piece, waiting for offers or good used gear listings.
I'm still in the process of buying gear (saving for drysuit and light) and bargain hunting is part of the fun of diving =D
I bought almost everything online from various sources, spending a bit more money than the bare minimum to satisfy my aesthetic taste (like in the regulator, I bought an Apeks 200 just because the FSR first stage is nicer than the mechanically identical DS4)

Going to your local dive shop is good to get a feeling of prices and brands carried, then you can decide for yourself... On this board it seems that people can point to very good prices on some single tank combo BCs like 300$ for a wing, harness and backplate... Used computers show up all the time (Honestly, as a brand new diver, I don't know why)

 

[sammym]

I'd suggest you to buy piece by piece, waiting for offers or good used gear listings.
I'm still in the process of buying gear (saving for drysuit and light) and bargain hunting is part of the fun of diving =D
I bought almost everything online from various sources, spending a bit more money than the bare minimum to satisfy my aesthetic taste (like in the regulator, I bought an Apeks 200 just because the FSR first stage is nicer than the mechanically identical DS4)

Going to your local dive shop is good to get a feeling of prices and brands carried, then you can decide for yourself... On this board it seems that people can point to very good prices on some single tank combo BCs like 300$ for a wing, harness and backplate... Used computers show up all the time (Honestly, as a brand new diver, I don't know why)

FSR is not mechanically identical. But it's just as good in most cases. I'm not knocking it - I have three.

Used computers show up all the time because people either advance their diving, or get sold on the flashy marketing. I'm not attacking that. I've got a transmitter and a computer that can do stuff I don't use. It's quite rare in my experience for people to use trimix - but lots of people like a computer that can handle it. I'm guilty for this - I want a shearwater computer even though I do not need one.

 

[halocline]

There are many, many threads about this exact topic. Since there is a considerable amount of money at stake, I suggest you spend quite a bit of time looking for and reading some of those threads. I've given what I think is good, specific, cost effective advice to many divers in your position. It's too much to re-type. Lots of other knowledgeable people have likewise offered good advice to new divers.

One quick thing though. Jacket BC "features" are usually detriments while actually diving, so don't buy an expensive bloated padded BC with all kinds of crap on it. Read about BP/W set ups, try to borrow different types of BCs to try out before you buy.

 

[Bubblesong]

I am glad I waited and dove a bit to figure out that a wetsuit is a waste of money for me, too cold up in Mass. I tried on two different shops dry suit rentals, but they were horribly uncomfortable. So now I am sure I need a custom fitted dry suit, since I am a short curvy and there aren't many short curvy women trying to unload their nearly new dry suits for cheap. So I am praying that Black Friday will have one of the awesome sales that I have heard of in the past, or I can find a yard sale-crapped out dry suit to bring to "Bare" dry suits trade in deal. I say all this since you are in Deleware, and might be in cold water area yourself. Good Luck!

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

Right now, you really don't know what you want or need. Fall is a great time to pick up used gear cheap if you know what to look for. I did buy 4 full sets of gear when we got certified. I've been happy with HOG/Edge regulators from DRIS scuba. I think each set was around 300 complete.

All wetsuits are uncomfortable when you put them on dry, once they are in the water, everything loosens up. In the Northeast a dry, or semi dry suit is probably a better choice if you plan to dive local.

If you ever plan to travel, jacket style BCs are not very travel friendly. We can get 2 in a large suitcase with the rest of our gear and barely make the 50 pound limit. I'm switching over to a backplate and wing setup or a transpac to be more travel friendly. BCD have so many options it's easy choose something at first, only to regret it later. jacket styles are great on the surface but more difficult to trim out at depth....then there is back inflate like a Zeagle Ranger or a true backplate and wing and everything in between. The options will make you dizzy trying to figure it out, especially if You don't have the ability to try something out conveniently.

Computers are expensive. I lucked out and chose a Oceanic Pro Plus 2.1 and love it. We bought a Puck for my wife and once she saw the readout on mine.....we bought her a used Pro Plus as well.

The best thing you can do is ask around, watch this site, rent or borrow different styles of equipment, and watch Craigslist for deals. If you will be buying tanks, make sure you read up on the "bad" alloys used in aluminum tanks in the late 80's and early 90's. Some shops will not fill them, hell I've seen one shop that won't fill ANYTHING per 20 years old.

The learning curve is steep on equipment when you first start especially on a budget. By the way, I bought full sets for my daughters after we were certified. One really doesn't care if she dives or not...the other is in nursing school and has no time. Lol....so much for the "family" hobby....


Good luck,
Jay

 

[sammym]

If you ever plan to travel, jacket style BCs are not very travel friendly. We can get 2 in a large suitcase with the rest of our gear and barely make the 50 pound limit. I'm switching over to a backplate and wing setup or a transpac to be more travel friendly. BCD have so many options it's easy choose something at first, only to regret it later. jacket styles are great on the surface but more difficult to trim out at depth....then there is back inflate like a Zeagle Ranger or a true backplate and wing and everything in between. The options will make you dizzy trying to figure it out, especially if You don't have the ability to try something out conveniently.

Computers are expensive. I lucked out and chose a Oceanic Pro Plus 2.1 and love it. We bought a Puck for my wife and once she saw the readout on mine.....we bought her a used Pro Plus as well.

Good luck,
Jay[/QUOTE]

I'm not trying to be a dick - but there is a lot of rubbish posted on the internet and then repeated. A basic BCD will weigh no more than a wing, harness and ally backplate. It will take up slightly more space - but weight wise you are not going to see a big improvement.

Also - BCD's are not harder to trim out at depth. Both wings and BCD's are bags of air. You need to get your weight right or nothing will work. People assume divers who have good trim get it because of their equipment - but it's generally because they know what they are doing.


There are good benefits to a wing - but reduced weight and easier trim are not at the top of the list. Modular design, simplicity and ability to configure to any situation are why they are preferred.

 

[Colliam7]

My question - is it better to look at a pre-built package being offered by some of the bigger name vendors (like LeisurePro), or is it better and only marginally more expensive to piece-meal a kit together?

Generally, the latter. Vendor-created packages will almost always include at least one item that you don't need, or which is really an inferior item. Now, several retailers, such as Leisure Pro have started to offer creative approaches - 'create your own package' menus, much like going to Sheetz and getting a MTO sub.. You can select items that YOU want, then submit a request to LP (giving your name / contact information) and they will come back with a discount package quote. That is not a bad idea. What you might find is that, when you take that reasonable approach, the discount price seems unbelievably low - mainly because the retail price of each of the items selected for the package items was unbelievably high, and it was easy to knock off quite a few dollars. The package price, for you to get what you want, is actually similar to the price most competitive dive shops will offer. I am not picking on LP - they are a good organization, and I have purchased some small items from them. Rather, my point is that when you venture outside of what they want to sell you, the bottom line price is not that impressive.

So while I wouldn't mind spending a little more to go local, I do mind paying A LOT more to go local.What has your experience been?

I started out going local, continued to go local, and it paid off 'in spades'. I initially paid a bit more for certain items than I might have paid online. But, the gap was not huge. And, as I became a known customer, I often ended up gaining access to opportunities for gear, for travel, etc at exceptionally good prices. I negotiated price on a number of items, and usually ended up with a better price - one that the shop was OK with, and one that I was OK with. Plus, when I needed some help from the manufacturer, a loaner item, help with questions, etc., I got a lot from the shop. That worked for me. it might not work for everyone.

In fairness, I 'grew up' in an extraordinary shop.

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

If you have to start out by saying "I'm not trying to be a dick"...you are.

My point was that there are lots of options for a BCD. Most open water students most start off with a jacket style. There are other options. That's based on my personal experience as a new diver, not what I've read on the Internet, (although lots of options are found on the net) I'm looking for some different options now. My ScubaPro glide X in XL is huge and takes up almost 1/2 the airline sized suitcase space when we travel. I'm looking for something smaller and easier to pack, possibly in a carry on only. That's just not possible with a Glide X.

I have not drank the Kool Aid and joined the "if you don't dive a BP/w you will die" club. There are lots of options for lots of reasons, it's just a challenge to find what you like most as a new diver. I will keep probably keep my jacket style as well.

For a new diver, a jacket style is definately easier on the surface. I think we can agree on that. As far as the trim at depth is concerned, my experience was it was easier to get a Ranger prone than any of the several BCDs ( Sherwood, Dacor, Mares and a few others - all jacket type) I tried first. I dove another back inflate as well with the same results. I don't remember the name but it did have the lever activated power inflate device.

The back inflate was just easier to hold prone but took some getting used to on the surface. I don't have trim issues now, don't kick reefs, plow the bottom, and can pretty much put myself in any position I need to be without a lot of effort. As a new diver, like all new divers, buoyancy and trim were an issue. For me, trim was easier with the back inflate. After 20 or so dives everything clicked, more or less, and everything got easier.

Different strokes for different folks. To the OP, my advice remains the same try several options before you spend the money. My local dive shop has a program that you can rent anything on the shelf for a test dive. If you buy it, they will credit the rental cost towards the purchase price. It was a great way to try several different options, maybe you can find something similar up there.

Again, good luck, safe travels,
Jay