Buying a New Regulator

[Deep South Divers]

I think the better point is that the regulator is capable of achieving very low WOB numbers.

They ALL are. They are all capable of actually freeflowing, which is to say that they are all capable of FORCING gas down your throat... In other words, NEGATIVE WOB numbers.

From there, it's a matter of tuning the regulator - easily done with a screwdriver and some patience - to deliver to the diver only the gas that he wants, when he wants it.

...Now, where that point is set, exactly, when it comes from the manufacturer, is what these so-called WOB tests are measuring. My point is, it makes no difference, and they're usually set too low anyway and need to be detuned to be functional.

The diver can choose to detune the regulator somewhat. I certainly don't want the thing free-flowing in a current.

...Or when you jump in the water... Or when you accidentally spit it out... Or when you donate it to your buddy because he's out of air...

People seem to REALLY be stuck on this idea of "performance," and that somehow, one reg has better "performance" than another. It's 2010, my friend... Pretty much, they all "perform" the same. Any differences are really just the differences in settings. What's more, if you take the cover off of most regs, you'll see that most of them are made by the same manufacturers and share the same parts... So it shouldn't be a surprise that they all breathe the same.

The mentality that one should be so concerned with "performance" comes from an irrational fear of drowning... That somehow, one of your choices could leave you with not enough gas to breathe. I can tell you that reality simply doesn't support that. The reality is that most of the regs are all identical.

We can assume that the reviewers didn't measure the WOB on the regulators they actually tested. More than likely, they just published the factory numbers and these numbers are the best the regulator will ever measure.

Oh, that's even better. If you walked into a car dealership, and the salesman told you, "This car can go 155 mles per hour," would you choose to buy or not to buy based on that information? I mean, as if the top speed was the most important thing... But even if it was, would you trust the entity trying to sell it to you? If the WOB (as if that's somehow a key) wasn't tested by the testor, and is simply pubished information from the manufacturer, then the information is completely moot anyway. And I don't mean that the information is laboratory-perfect and may not be the same in the real world... I mean, it may be complete bull and have no basis in reality whatsoever, under any circumstances, just to sell someone who thinks "WOB" is a selling point of regulators.

I'm a little skeptical of this approach as well. It is just human nature to recommend the thing you just bought and disparage the thing it replaced. A prospective purchaser can post to a forum like this and get a broad spectrum of recommendations but the problem is that it isn't as broad as first thought. Kind of like the BP/W crowd. Small in number but vocal! Disclaimer: I'm one of them...

Me too. And being one of them, I can tell you that I simply don't care if someone creates a new, "better," lighter, more streamined, "latest and greatest" AquaPro ProHawk BC. When it comes to BCs, "lightweight," "titanium," and "oxygen clean" doesn't matter, either. These would all be pointless marketing schemes that have little factual (if at all) benefit to a diver underwater. Sound familiar?

In the end, a customer can read, discuss and consider all kinds of opinions but they have to make their own decision. As long as they buy an appropriate regulator for the environment and it is from one of the top suppliers, things will work out fine. It might not be the 'best' regulator in any particular regard but it will most likely perform beyond their ability to discern.

Richard

You're missing the point.

Look, man... Go to an LDS or a vacation spot or whatever and rent as many regs as you can. Take with you someone who can tune a regulator, then go try them all out. You'll find that the tuner has a lot more to do with your "WOB" than the name brand on the front of the reg...

Not surprisingly, you'll find that all of the regs will pretty much breathe the same...

 

[Deep South Divers]

As far as I know they haven't pulled the trigger yet, but i think they will.

I certainly hope and pray that they stay alive and well, because I do not want to have to drop the coin to buy my own compressor, and we both know that I absolutely need a local supplier of air.

I've got one for ya when you're ready. It'll probably run you in the $1200 to $1500 range, and you'll be able to control the quality of your own air...

 

[rstofer]

The mentality that one should be so concerned with "performance" comes from an irrational fear of drowning... That somehow, one of your choices could leave you with not enough gas to breathe. I can tell you that reality simply doesn't support that.
The reality is that most of the regs are all identical.
<snip>
Not surprisingly, you'll find that all of the regs will pretty much breathe the same...

I am still diving with the Oceanic Omega II I bought when I started diving in 1988. I also have several identical sets that I bought off of eBay and I doubt I will ever upgrade. One of the reg sets has a CDX-5 first stage for colder water but the others are original.

I used to dive in warm water so I had an Air II on my BC. I would breathe from it on every dive. It wasn't a high end reg but I never had a problem breathing. It worked well enough.

At some point, it comes down to availability of service. If you expect your LDS to do the work (and I have thoughts on that, as well), you need to have something they can service. Maybe local service isn't important! I have a bunch of regulators so turn-around time is not a factor.

Richard

 

[mafiajoe]

Another interesting point is to watch "unbiased testers" grade two pieces of equipment - say, an Apeks ATX50 second stage and and Apeks ATX200 second stage - with completely different numbers... Even though the only difference between the two is the model number logo on the button. Internally, they're identical. In fact, if you serviced the two regs and accidentally placed the wrong cover on a regulator body, you'd never know it... They're literally the same piece.

Literally exactly they're the same!

Why, then, would they create completely different WOB numbers? Two reasons... Either one's simply tuned differently than the other, or the testers aren't really "unbiased." .

...So how do you find out what's good and what's not? Simple... Ask someone who does a lot of diving. He'll tell you... And probably in some pretty plain language. Not only will you glean what's good, bad, and ugly, but you'll find out what's really important when it comes to gear.

Exactly again

what's important in gear isn't what's new or light or "revolutionary" - it's what works when you want it to work. Experienced divers value solidity and predictability in their life support systems - not "latest and greatest."

Hey man,you keep stealing my thoughts!

 

[Deep South Divers]

I am still diving with the Oceanic Omega II I bought when I started diving in 1988. I also have several identical sets that I bought off of eBay and I doubt I will ever upgrade. One of the reg sets has a CDX-5 first stage for colder water but the others are original.

...And if you were to believe what is written in every test, they'd have you believing that your 1988 reg has been improved over 22 seasons... So it must be near impossible to breathe on!

That said, there's been a serious advance in materials science since 1988 - so it really is possible that you MIGHT be able to find a better breather today.

That said, I'm sure that any reg - even your 1988 Oceanic - could probably be tuned quite perfectly...

I used to dive in warm water so I had an Air II on my BC. I would breathe from it on every dive. It wasn't a high end reg but I never had a problem breathing. It worked well enough.

Yeah, Air IIs and other integrated octos are typically VERY detuned, so the risk of freeflow is very small. Of course, this doesn't make much logical sense - if you have to actually use it, it'll be during an emergency... Which is precisely the time that you want a reg to be perfectly tuned, not detuned.

Did you have it tuned? It's still just a second stage reg - doesn't take but a twist of a screwdriver...

At some point, it comes down to availability of service. If you expect your LDS to do the work (and I have thoughts on that, as well), you need to have something they can service. Maybe local service isn't important! I have a bunch of regulators so turn-around time is not a factor.

Richard

Most LDSs today don't do regulator work in-house any more. Most of them send their work out to another LDS somewhere else, just like you would if you didn't have an LDS.

...So the concept of an LDS to work on regs is probably not a factor.

...Which brings up the question, "Why, then, do we even need an LDS?" Good question, and the reason a lot of them are going out of business. The ones that are thriving are the ones that are doing the actual annual service - not the one sending the reg out to them. Again, therein lies the difference between one side of the fence and the other.

I feel like I'm repeating myself... Oh, wait...

 

[Deep South Divers]

Hey man,you keep stealing my thoughts!

Oh, YOU'RE the guy! I was wonderin' who I kept channeling! Oh, by the way, would you please let the dog out? He keeps tellin' me that he's gotta go pee...

I have this light switch in my house that doesn't seem to do anything. I flick it on, and nothing seems to happen. I flick it off, and nothing seems to happen. The other day, still curious, I flicked it on and off really fast a bunch of times to see if anything changed. It didn't.

...So imagine my surprise today when I went out to the mailbox, and in there was a letter from a little old lady in Germany that said, "Cut it out."

 

[sean_nc]

Most LDSs today don't do regulator work in-house any more. Most of them send their work out to another LDS somewhere else, just like you would if you didn't have an LDS.

...So the concept of an LDS to work on regs is probably not a factor.

...Which brings up the question, "Why, then, do we even need an LDS?" Good question, and the reason a lot of them are going out of business. The ones that are thriving are the ones that are doing the actual annual service - not the one sending the reg out to them. Again, therein lies the difference between one side of the fence and the other.

Just wanted to comment, I'm pretty lucky that many of my LDS's service regs on site. I've taken my Titan LX back to the shop where I bought it closest to my house because I was concerned about the fit of a new hose and they took me back to the workbench wile they checked it out. (they've done the annual service there too)

The last time I went into the shop that I dive with on the coast I went back there and watched him rebuilding a reg identical to mine.

AirTech is connected to another local shop and probably where a lot of shops send them out to. I also happen to be about 10 min. from them.

One other thing is that just because a local LDS isn't a dealer for HOG yet doesn't mean they won't service it for you. The kits are right there online and any competent tech should be able and glad to do the service.

and thanks SeaJay for the insight. Getting some good information out there helps lots of divers.

..now I still have to decide if I want to get Apex or HOG to get ready for doubles.

 

[TGreene]

..now I still have to decide if I want to get Apex or HOG to get ready for doubles.

By looking solely at the cost difference, you can buy the HOG in doubles for less that you could buy the Apeks for singles... Just something to consider when doing the math!

 

[Deep South Divers]

Oh, man... You ARE lucky! I've done quite a bit of business with AirTech, and they're outstanding. Upbeat, professional, affordable, well-equipped, and timely. It's places like that that will thrive.

...Which is so funny - AirTech is a LDS for you, but to some guy in Kansas, they're not. And the guy in Kansas considers it to be a "disadvantage" to do business with AirTech, and instead often buys only a local-dealer regulator that can be serviced locally.

...Who probably sends regs out to be serviced to AirTech...

Sounds like having AirTech local is influenicing the other local dive shops into doing "in-house" reg service and repair. That's a good thing - between that, gear demonstrations and tank fills/rentals, there's no other point to a LDS.

...So if the LDS isn't doing those things, then... Well, there's no point in them being there.

 

[Deep South Divers]

By looking solely at the cost difference, you can buy the HOG in doubles for less that you could buy the Apeks for singles... Just something to consider when doing the math!

I haven't seen THAT much of a difference, Tim! I'm getting my Apeks regs from a dealer in Spain:

Regulators, scuba-diving Regulators. Scubastore.com, buy, offers, scuba-diving

Any stage usually costs around $150, shipped to my door.

I recently purchased a Suunto D6 for about $675, too - close to half retail.