Buying a New Regulator

[TGreene]

And if I read the post right it sounds as if the 1st stage has turrets and orings so I would need a different 1st stage.

The turrets don't bother me a bit, and while SeaJay is "technically" correct in regards to them, ask him how many he's seen or heard of blowing out... Yea, he and I have had THAT discussion!

Good luck with which ever system you choose, because quite frankly, they are all excellant choices and any one of them would serve you quite well.

Just remember to follow the proper "break-in" routine, which is critical for brand new regs, and all will be good!

-Tim

 

[Deep South Divers]

The turrets don't bother me a bit, and while SeaJay is "technically" correct in regards to them, ask him how many he's seen or heard of blowing out...

None. I've never seen one turret O-ring blow. I've never even seen one leak. The weak point of any regulator is probably the tops of the hoses, where they connect to the first stage. Even with hose protectors, it's a stress point that seems to eventually leak.

With regards to regulators themselves (not the hoses), the most common issue I see is that either the first stage stops keeping intermediate pressure properly (resulting in a second stage that won't stop leaking) or a second stage that either won't breathe at all or breathes wet because the exhaust valve won't seal completely or the diaphragm has been ruptured, torn, or falls apart.

...And those things can happen to any regulator. In fact, it's not a matter of "if" they will, it's a matter of "when" they will.

The best defense against these issues is regular maintenance, which you should be doing anyway (or having done).

I still find that turret designs always manage to allow the hoses to be swung around in the wrong direction... Not a problem, just an annoyance. I see turrets as being a solution for a problem that never existed in the first place.

...But it's not like they're a problem in and of themselves. When rebuilding, I find it surprising how much we trust that turret O-ring - a problem with it could have catastrophic effects, especially if you're diving an overhead situation... So I avoid them.

But no, I've never seen one blow.

I hope that HOG will come out with a non-turreted first stage... Everything else seems to be great with their products, and the way they're doing business makes me feel good about their purchase.

I hope they come out with an Apeks XTX100 first stage design - I haven't found a better design, either for doubles or singles.

Good luck with which ever system you choose, because quite frankly, they are all excellant choices and any one of them would serve you quite well.

Ditto here... The point of diving isn't GEAR. Yeah, it's cool and all, but get whatever you need to get in the water and go DIVING... If you make a purchase that gets you wet, that's all that really matters.

...And the wetter you get, and the more often you get wet, the more you'll gravitate toward gear that makes you happy. If you don't know what that is yet, then the answer isn't on a forum or in a Rodale's test or at the LDS or in your buddy's opinion... It's in the water.

Just remember to follow the proper "break-in" routine, which is critical for brand new regs, and all will be good!

What's that, Tim?

 

[TGreene]

Just add water!!!


SeaJay -- The only reason I added the part about the turrets is because from his post, it appeared that he may now be concerned about an issue that really isn't, that's all.

 

[keyshunter]

Thanks everyone for their feedback. I did look into the HOG regulators as suggested, but I do not think it will work for me. I do not plan on doing my own regulator service and I do not have a LDS that would service one.
I am leaning more towards the Aqua Lung Titan LX. I am ok with only having 1 HP port. Since this is my first regulator purchase (my US Divers Aquarius I got 6 years ago for free... ), I may be a bit naive. So, are there any problems using my current backup octopus and HP gauges with newer equipment?

Your choice of the Titan LX is a very good one. It will serve you quite well, and can be serviced almost anywhere in the world. If in good condition, there is no reason that your current octo and gauges cannot be used with this reg.

 

[mafiajoe]

.....I'd actually try to steer you into an Apeks, but that wasn't on the list. Whatever choice you make, use it safely and enjoy!

I've been using different makes of regs,but none beats Apeks.Xtx200,100,50 whatever,the only regs that really fulfill ones expectations!Sure not on the cheap side but I'd rather save on some other bit of gear IMO.

 

[Deep South Divers]

I've been using different makes of regs,but none beats Apeks.Xtx200,100,50 whatever,the only regs that really fulfill ones expectations!Sure not on the cheap side but I'd rather save on some other bit of gear IMO.

Ditto. ALL of my regs are Apeks. Funny that they're also the choice of the other commercial diver here. I guess that says a lot.

That said, Apeks' new "Status" lineup of regs - wih the battery and the LCD screen - I would avoid like the plague. In fact, I've considered sending Apeks nasty emails about them. What were they smoking when they decided to complicate an otherwise phenominal reg? Thank God the screen is an option - that needs to go in the "surface logic" bin.

I absolutely love their XTX100 first stage - the XTX200 first is also great, but I like the better positioning of the diaphragm in the XTX100. I've never had a problem with the position of the XTX200's diaphragm, and I do a lot of diving that would expose a problem like that (overhead, silty, working, "bump" dives)... But plainly, the XTX100's diaphragm placement is better. I also like their DS4 first stage for the same reason, and find the hose routing only slightly less convenient than the XTX100's and XTX200's.

I love that this year, they've chromed their XTX200 first stage like they've always done to the DS4. They need to do that for the XTX100's first stage, too. Dark "gunmetal" chrome, please, would make for a very unique appearance.

I own several of each of these regulators - internally, they're all pretty much identical, and there is no difference between them (except for cosmetics and hose routing) that I can think of. I own more DS4 first stages than any of the others, as their price point is better, the first stages are easily available without having to purchase a second stage, the diaphragm is "down" and not "up," and because of the chrome finish that takes abuse without showing any wear. Love 'em. If I could get a chrome version of an XTX100 first stage (which would then be, effectively, a DS4 with "tilted" ports for slightly better hose routing) I'd buy a half dozen of them today.

For what it's worth, I still don't understand Apeks' propensity to use an oddball-sized LP port in their ATX200 first stage. I just use an adapter to make it normal, but that's a mild annoyance. This, too, might be why I have so many DS4s.

I haven't had any experience yet with their TEK3 lineup of first stages... I've never had a problem with the hose routing for doubles using ANY Apeks reg (and choose to use my ATX200 first stages on my doubles), but these TEK firsts look to improve even more. I don't know yet whether or not a left-post and right-post specific first stage would be a good thing or bad one. It appears that it may improve hose routing slightly (again, a solution looking for a problem?), but at the cost of not being able to swap out a failed first stage easily. That is... If I want to have a spare first stage with me, then I need to carry BOTH a left and a right first stage now instead of just one. I'd have to try the TEK3 out before being able to say whether or not this idea is an improvement over just using a pair of matching XTX100 or XTX200 firsts. The hose routing is already so good on those two first stages... I really don't see much room for improvement.

...And you'll never be able to use a TEK3 on a singles rig. It's like they sacrificed a lot to make the TEK3s... I'd have to dive them to know for sure whether or not there's enough "hose routing" advantage on a set of doubles to justify the purchase of a set of TEK3s.

HOG's first stages are all turreted... As I mentioned above, an annoyance to me. They do look good, though, and I love the direct dealings with the manufacturer, including service classes and parts supply. I would love for them to offer a DS4 or XTX100 first stage - dark chrome, please... With HOG red accents.

HOG's second stages look fantastic - just like Apeks' second stages, but with better purge buttons, more attractive and unique styling, and missing the useless adjustable exhaust tee and right-hand hose routing that Apeks has offered over the past couple of years. The price point and factory-direct philosophy of the company makes the HOG regs a winner, I think.

 

[TGreene]

One other thing that can be added to the list of "things to consider" these days, is the type of hoses a person will be using... If you read some of the many recent threads about Miflex hoses, you'll see comment after comment about how hose routing "issues" that once seemed to be a slight nuissance, no longer exist.

SeaJay, I wouldn't be too surprised if you get to see a non-turreted 1st stage from HOG in the near future, because I can tell you that Chris has been reading and listening to what divers like you have been saying. Last week when I inquired about something that would fill a very necessary niche that nobody else has yet filled , he laughed and said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "So much for surprises!"

-Tim

 

[rstofer]

15 Regulators on test - Divernet

...they tested both the Aqualung Titan LX and the Scubapro MK 17 and a bunch of other regs side-byside.

How odd that 3 of the 5 reviewers didn't include SP in their top 5 choices and the other two rated it only 4th and 5th. Odd because the Work Of Breathing was FAR lower on the SP regulator than on any of the others. Given that all 5 reviewers chose the Apeks as their top rated, this is either a terrific regulator or this review is really an advertisement. It's WOB is more than 25% higher than the SP Mlk17. Yet there is nothing in the reviews to suggest why the SP ranked so low.

Disclaimer: I don't own a single SP regulator and never have so I am not here to defend them one way or the other.

The problem with reviews is you have to be able to figure out what's going on with the reviewers. If the review is for a magazine, paid advertisers will always get at least a mild recommendation even if the equipment is junk. It pays to be cynical.

Personally, I just look at the numbers. A good number to look at is WOB. Another might be maximum air delivery but that's kind of iffy because many regulators can deliver more air than the tank valve.

Richard

 

[TGreene]

I too though that was really strange, and have never put much weight into reviews such as these... The motorcycle industry is known for this same type of "review" process as well.

FWIW: The HOG's come in at .74

-Tim

 

[Deep South Divers]

SeaJay, I wouldn't be too surprised if you get to see a non-turreted 1st stage from HOG in the near future, because I can tell you that Chris has been reading and listening to what divers like you have been saying. Last week when I inquired about something that would fill a very necessary niche that nobody else has yet filled , he laughed and said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "So much for surprises!"

-Tim

Really? Care to share?

Another thing I like about HOG regs is that you can specify what sort of hoses you want with the reg setup. All other manufacturers' regs come with standard "recreational" length hoses, which many of us ditch for other lengths - or the Myflex hoses. I think it's super-cool (and great marketing) that I can order a set of regs directly from HOG with my choice of hoses. That way, I'm only paying for what I actually want, rather than paying for hoses twice.

Too cool.

I still haven't tried the Myflex hoses. There's a lot of things that sound great about them, but there's also some things that seem like they might be an issue. I love their flexibility, but the fabric covering on the outside looks fragile compared to smooth rubber, especially in a commercial environment. All hoses float, but the Myflex apparently is REALLY floaty. I don't know if this would be an issue or not.

When are manufacturers going to realize that divers need gear that's "neutral," not "light?" Everyone keeps saying "it's lighter," like that's a good thing. It's not - "lighter" means more weight on your weight belt to be neutral. "Lighter" regs mean that they're going to pull "up" on your jaws when they're underwater and full of breathing gas. Everything needs to be neutral - or even slightly negative (which would mean LESS weight on your belt).

The need for negatively-bouyant gear is one of the primary reasons why stainless bolt snaps work better than plastic connectors. It's one of the primary reasons why Jet fins are so popular with experienced divers. It's one of the primary reasons why D-rings are better in stainless steel than plastic, and it's one of the primary reasons why stainless steel backplates are more popular than the plastic "AT-Paks" of yesteryear.

The bottom line is that a diver has to be a certain amount negative in order to dive... In other words, his gear has to weigh a certain amount more than the water it displaces. When manufacturers make light, floaty gear, the diver's got to add more lead to get to that point of slightly negative. And since there's more lead to get to that point, even MORE lead has to be added to counter the water displaced by the additional lead!

In other words, the more "light weight" everyone makes their equipment, the more lead the diver's got to wear to counterbalance it.

...So the diver wears a HEAVIER rig, not a LIGHTER one, when the equipment is made to be "light weight."