Busted by the DFG

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FredT:
IndigoBlue, I didn't forget them. I just don't consider honoring them with the title of LEO. Even the Mafia refuses to use some of the tactics the IRS commonly uses in their "business" of extortion in the name of "colecting taxes". The real culprits of the tax system are the congress critters and special "tax courts" controlled by the IRS, but IRS middle and upper mangement carries a heavy load of responsibility for unconstitutional actions too. FT

The IRS is not really all that bad. Most people that have to deal with them on a regular basis know that. This is a perpetuated myth that is played out in tv dramas and watercooler urban legends. I have been partners in a few businesses over the years. I've purposesly not filed taxes on time for a number of reasons often involving CPA's, lawyers, and K-1 filings. As a matter of fact, I just sent in my '01 Federal return a few days ago. I've been audited 4 times since 1996. I've played a fine line on deductions due to the industry I'm in. The IRS has been nothing but patient and cordial with me. They just keep sending notices every quarter and then they'll put a deadline on me. That's when I respond. They usually waive some of the penalties and interest without making any threats. They just state that they will garnish wages if due taxes aren't paid. They allow payment plans and such. These games are a way to maximize or minimize returns depending on the situation. No one from the IRS has ever threatened me or my business associates. Tax evasion on the other hand is a crime, and for that they will threaten. There is a difference between tax deliquency and tax evasion. The latter being falsifying your documents to get out of paying taxes. For that, expect to get hauled off if you are found guilty.

As for the game wardens, it must be tough doing a job that everyone despises you for doing. If a game warden doesn't bust someone for having an illegal bug, then what are we paying them for? We get stopped and searched all the time coming through the cuts in SE FL. If you refuse to show your catch, you're going to look really guilty and probably force a thorough search. I've found that if you cooperate, you'll get respect and you'll be on your way. Don't keep the ones that are just over the limit. Is a lobster really that delicious that you're willing to risk a substantial fine or even your boat?
 
ChrisM:
...measuring and counting lobsters ain't rocket science.

...Chris


That is exactly why the only feasible defense in this case is that the little lobster jumped into the boat alone.

I would stand my ground in accusing the lobster of jumping in under his/her own power, and trying to hitch a ride. Then make the lobster deny it under oath.

Other than that, you dont stand a chance in court on this one. :)
 
whalerkyle:
... Speaking to the searching of my boat. Does anyone know what would truly happen if I refuse to let the DFG search my boat/bc's/coolers? Kyle

As a matter of fact, I do, and from experience no less! lol The DFG jack-booted goon will try to coerce you into giving up your 4th and 5th Amendment rights, and invertebrates will put their tale between their legs and whimper and go along with such treason. They will usually threaten to call the local PD to search you, (which you will still not consent to) which results in probably at least an hour delay at which point you can inform them that such a detention and the resulting unreasonable delay, especially absent probable cause would be not only unconstitutional, but even if you did have contraband, it would be inadmissable under the fruit of the poision tree doctrine, and in any event would result in you filing a civil complaint against the DFG naming the warden employee personally as an additional defendant, but you would also do your legal research and remind him of the new precedent that does not shieled him from immunity for engaging in crimes while on the job; " Mr Warden, just think of the tens of thousands of dollars you will be required to pay to retain an attorney to defend yourself if you don't trust the DFG lawyers to protect your interests. And will the DFG really back you, or maybe to cut their losses they may use you as a scapegoat and fire you, leaving you without a job with a family to provide for."

Now when I do this stuff, I always come across as a guy who is utterly prepared and in control, but initially it is done in a way that allows the the goon to save face, and make him think you are on his side.

As an example, a moron employee once shot himself in the hand with my .45 while in my truck. I took him to the hospital immediately, at which point I knew they would call the local PD. Cop arrives, asks me what happened, and here's how I handled it: "Well, other than to tell you that he accidently shot himself in the hand, I really don't wish to make a statement". He replies; "Then fine, I will just take you down to the station for questioning" I reply: "Actually, not only do I not have to answer your questions here, but I do not have to answer them at the station either" Ok, this establishes that I am the one in control, not him...now comes the buddy bonding thing as well as the gesture to allow him to save face, both crucial elements in negotiating with thugs; "Look, it is not that I wish to be uncooperative with you, it is just that for all I know this idiot will hire a schlock attorney to sue me for his own stupidity in shooting himself in the hand- look, you know how lawyers are these days, these creaps are now even suing cops for them just doing their jobs!" Ok, he really liked the latter part of that statment, and i created it right on the spot solely for his consumption. The cop says I will tell you what, I will just go inside, verify that he in fact accidently shot himself, then the matter would be concluded-I said; "You sound real fair.", another compliment.

So what do you think is going to happen if you refuse to give up your rights to the DFG goon, he is going to arrest you-for refusing to give up your 4th and 5th Amendment Rights?!

The mere prescence of scuba gear hardly makes one likely to have engaged in a violation of the California Code of Regulations related to taking game, which is what the DFG enforces.

That is like saying the posession of a car makes you more likely to be a drunk driver, and worthy of a duice stop.

Did you cop to being the posessor of the short bug?

Remember, these tyrants have created an entire scheme to tax money out of you, it is all about money, and the deck is utterly stacked against you by these jackals. They created a set of rules but they don't play by them. It will be an utter and complete waste of your time to fight it if you look at it from a profit and loss standpoint, but an incredible opportunity to exercise your duty as a citizen to do everything within your power to utterly screw with them back, but be prepared to waste an awful lot of time doing so.

Remember, they created the game, not you, and you are innocent until proven guilty-make them play by their own rules. On the rare times they do, and you can't beat the rap using the rules, then thump your chest, play hardball, bargain down and cop to a lesser, then pay the piper as all played fair and you lost fair and square.

I used to spend an average of 10 hours doing research and preparations of various motions on radar citations cases over a lousy ticket costing less then a couple of hundred. But I always rubbed their noses in their own soilings, and THAT is what made it all worthwile.

Now, where are my meds.......
 
RebreatherBoy:
...As an example, a moron employee once shot himself in the hand with my .45 while in my truck.
Clearly you see the right to bear arms as a constitutional right to the individual. I support you in this and agree as did Thomas Jefferson in his Federalist Papers (he only wrote the constitution).
Remember, these tyrants have created an entire scheme to tax money out of you, it is all about money, ….
Here I must disagree. These rules were created to conserve game so that we and our future generations may continue to enjoy them. With out some regulation, we the people would simply hunt and fish game out of existence (as we have already with several species). Some reasonable limits must be set and enforced. These limits, will allow us to hunt and fish today, and tomorrow. That is why the DFG was created and those are the rules they enforce. The fines are just the means of enforcement they use to cause the violators to pay part of the cost of enforcement. [/QUOTE]
... but be prepared to waste an awful lot of time doing so.
You can and should fight if you are innocent, but it takes courage to stand up and say, "I was in the wrong" and pay your dues when you know yourself to be guilty. There is also a lot to be said for, I was in the wrong, and there is so much more I can be doing with my life than wasting it fighting a punishment I deserve.
...I used to spend an average of 10 hours doing research and preparations of various motions on radar citations cases over a lousy ticket costing less then a couple of hundred. But I always rubbed their noses in their own soilings, and THAT is what made it all worthwhile. .....

I could have done that the last ticket I got (first one in 20 years). I was cited for doing 70+ in a 65. Now I could have fought it on the following grounds 1.) the only posted speed limit was on the 91 freeway. I was not on that road, I was on the 91 Expressway, a private road owned by a private company (at that time) and for which I paid a fee to use. There were no speed limit signs on it. (problem- the default speed limit in the state is 35). 2.) I know I was not doing the 76 plus the officer said I was because I was havening problems with the cruise control not engaging and I was trying to set it for 70 mph. 3.) I was paying particular attention to my speed because I was returning from a trip where we had carpooled for most of the way and the driver had been pulled over for 80 in a 55 in a US government vehicle. Driver talked his way out of that one, but we harassed him all the way there and back about it. So I got into my car and consciously thought, I had better watch my speed going home or I will get at ticket after harassing this guy for hours about his speeding. So I was watching my speed.

But the bottom line is, my only defense was, I know I was not going that fast because I was setting my cruise control for only 5 mph over the limit. I was still guilty, and the ticket was for the speed I was planning to do. So I paid my fine and took my lumps and spent my time doing more productive things.

So bottom line, add a little more oxygen to your rebreather mix and enjoy life. Let Don Quiote(sp?) tilt at windmills.

Now a word for Whalerkyle…. Thanks for sharing your story with us that we may learn from your pain. Keep up posted on how it turns out.
 
RebreatherBoy,
While I don't nessasarly agree with all your statements such as the ways one might fight this...but that's just me.
I gotta give you a pat on the back for being a "breath of fresh air".
I totally agree with your views againts unreasonable/unjustified searches.
People just don't seem to get this.
I strongly feel that we are doing a dis-service each time we bend over to a search with out prabable cause.
Each time the authorities get away with this it makes us weaker.
My America is not and should not become a police state.
Whalerkyle,
As far as the short lobster goes,I appreciate that you shared this.I learned something.
I think I would show up do some "splaining",hope for a reduced fine,chalk this up to experience and move on.
mech
 
This is a very informative and interesting thread. Since a fishing/hunting license is not a right, but a privilege, would it be kosher for the court to revoke your license if you refuse to cooperate with the game warden?

1. You have purchased a license to take game.

2. You are engaged in taking game (boat + dive gear + night + ...).

3. The warden doesn't need a warrent/probable-cause to inspect your catch?
 
Mech,

My colleagues all disagree with my collections efforts when clients do not adhere to their contractual obligations with my firm. They say I shouldl just chalk it up as the cost of doing business, and pass it along to the paying clients.

I was raised with a sense of justice and fairness, and intellectually, I just cannot bring myself to pass along the cost from dishonest people to honest people. I brutally crush at all costs those that would steal from my source of livelyhood.

I question whether the DFG really has an interest in managing game. Although the claim is noble, the manner in which it is carried out is criminal. As an example, demanding people consent to a search, threatening them with detention if they do not give up their rights, this is thuggery. People who conduct themselves like that should be given no respect whatsoever, hence my use of sugar coated terms like goons, thugs, criminals, etc.

Back to the feel good claim of them "preserving our resources for future generations", blah,blah, sorry, they are more interested in $. If they were really interested, they would prohibit the taking of female lobsters or lobster carrying eggs in their swimmerettes.

Plato opined that "Good people do not need laws to act responsibly, while bad people ignore laws". I have always refused to take female lobsters with eggs, yet this is legal. Yet a lobster 1/4" too short, give me a break.

Why do government agents always attempt to hold citizens accountable for law violations, yet violate far more serious Constitutional laws in the process?

I view all these asinine laws as a chess game money scheme created by the taxman to deprive you of some of your money. I so rarely ever enter into the game, preferring to avoid it as much as humanly possible. As an example, I have seen DFG types on docks making divers line up and inspecting their personal effects. I walk right by and refuse to line up like a mindless lemming. It has nothing to do with whether I have game and wish it to be inspected or otherwise, it has to do with principle and law.

Everytime you give up your rights, they get further eroded.
 
Kyle, were I in your shoes, I'd go to court, cop to a mistake, and ask to speak with the judge and/or whoever is acting as prosecutor. They are usually pretty reasonable, and you may be able to get out of this one, if you have no priors. I do not advise grandstanding, unless you are or have a very good lawyer. Don't give DFG/the legal system a reason to keep an eye on you. It is my opinion, that if you cop any kind of "I know the law" attitude, they WILL remember you, and may make your diving much less fun. How would you like to be boarded every time you go diving?

Probable cause? You're on a boat, with dive gear, and game bags. Sort of like a guy in the woods wearing camos and carrying a rifle. A judge will say seeing you diving with a game bag, it is a reasonable inference that you were hunting, and the Warden is exercising his duties by inspecting your catch.

I've found the best way to stay out of trouble is to avoid it, but if you find yourslf there, good manners can get you out of bad situations.
 
PhotoTJ:
Kyle, were I in your shoes, I'd go to court, cop to a mistake, and ask to speak with the judge and/or whoever is acting as prosecutor. They are usually pretty reasonable, and you may be able to get out of this one, if you have no priors. I do not advise grandstanding, unless you are or have a very good lawyer. Don't give DFG/the legal system a reason to keep an eye on you. It is my opinion, that if you cop any kind of "I know the law" attitude, they WILL remember you, and may make your diving much less fun. How would you like to be boarded every time you go diving?

Probable cause? You're on a boat, with dive gear, and game bags. Sort of like a guy in the woods wearing camos and carrying a rifle. A judge will say seeing you diving with a game bag, it is a reasonable inference that you were hunting, and the Warden is exercising his duties by inspecting your catch.

I've found the best way to stay out of trouble is to avoid it, but if you find yourslf there, good manners can get you out of bad situations.

This is exactly true when dealing with the other all-powerful enforcement agency, the IRS.

Nobody likes to pay taxes, and everybody likes to stretch the law a little bit. But you must be careful about taking aggressive tax saving positions, and if/when the IRS catches you, the best bet is to be polite, pay your taxes, and behave yourself, at least for awhile, until they are not looking at you specifically anymore.

Without a doubt, the IRS and the game wardens are the most powerful police in the USA if not in the whole world. Don't mess with them.
 
Just a note of appreciation for the DFG. There are a lot of people who dont respect our resources even with them on patrol. Without them there would not be a lobster or abalone on the North Coast of California. They regularly bust people taking obscene amounts of illegal game for profit. If that infringes on my liberty a bit Im not too upset. We have had them ask to look through our gear up in Mendocino County. I always thank them for their important work.
 
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