Bungee types - again ;)

[Razorista]

No, they did sell the parts. You just weren't around at the time.

I did not contradict that!
I said they never sold them 'cheap'.

The Razor 1 was later and overlappingly sold for $300 without BCD.

His rig looks like a Razor copy to me. What's better about his?

He freely admits where he got some of his inspiration from.
Some parts that first appeared on the Razor have to be either copied or imitated to get a good modern sidemount system.

No, it's not. He does or did offer the BC part on this website. BCs need to be CE certified to be sold in Europe. It doesn't matter if you have to put it together yourself... what counts is what the product is intended to do. That think of his needs to be tested according to DIN EN 1908, there is not way around it.
And PLEASE let's not discuss DIN EN standards here, I know this for a fact.

I know CE rules, he does as well.
His 'webshop' was just known to close friends at the time and seemed an easy way to share the information.
He never sold any that way except to personal friends perhaps and I expect he made a net-loss getting the parts for them.

Razor, I was already diving sidemount before you guys, I already told you that.

But you still haven't proven that you did not dive sidemount 'badly', have you

 

[Patoux01]

It is still impossible for us to help anyone when he comes to us trying to build a sidemount system for less than perhaps 300 Euro, most need at least 400, the systems people dream up sometimes could exceed 1000 Euros production cost.

Dude, you're way out of your mind.

 

[Razorista]

Dude, you're way out of your mind.

Why?

 

[Bennno]

His 'webshop' was just known to close friends at the time and seemed an easy way to share the information.

He posted it on facebook and on a public forum. He also claims to have trademarked the brand name.

 

[Patoux01]

Simple, if it costs you 300€ to build a copy of a rig, you're doing it wrong, very wrong.

 

[Razorista]

...and on a public forum...

I would not know him to be active in any forum.
Probably someone wanted to do him a 'favor', but that does not matter.

At the moment it is not sold at all and only used by close friends of his.

 

[Razorista]

Razor, I was already diving sidemount before you guys, I already told you that.

Really, that does not matter to me @Bennno.

If it was Steve Bogaerts talking to me like you sometimes do I would not be able to accept that either.
He would not do that and does not, that's the difference.

First of all you are nothing but a faceless internet persona to me.
But most of all I neither idolize nor actively dislike people.

I am just a divers 'persona' on the internet. I like everybody who at least tries to get into the water without killing himself or anything else.
I do not mind 'strokes', I do not mind tec-divers or rec divers, neither side- nor back- nor frontmounters.

I reject everyone who tries to convince me without solid and verifiable proof of anything ever again when it comes to diving, however.
Most people are wrong, that has been proven to me often enough.

 

[Razorista]

Simple, if it costs you 300€ to build a copy of a rig, you're doing it wrong, very wrong.

Try to get even an inflator unit for a good price. That part often destroys many calculations.
Local calculation would be:
(bought at hardware supply stores and always multiple pieces at wholesale price, not diving shop rates):
D-rings and all other small metal parts: about 30 Euros
Plates: about 30 each custom made to a drawing, or 25 for one, 30 for the other one...lets assume 60 together.
Webbing: 10 Meters at 50cents to a Euro per meter would be very cheap in quantities less of then 100 Meters, you need 8-10, lets assume 10 euro together with the bungees (close to 50 would be more realistic though).
Pouch: 20-30 Euro
Double enders, long, for the pouch: 10 Euro for both would be wholesale prices in small quantities
Boltsnaps for bungee, wing and inflator unit: 15 Euro total, lets say 20 with minimum spares

Gets you 160 Euro at wholesale prices, 125 is the cheapest I saw yet (as I mentioned already), fits without a pouch almost exactly.

Now try to make a decent wing for 150 and you can stay below the total of 300 barely.
And for your Information: an MSR bag of 10 liters goes for 59-69,95 locally and you want 20l.

What's you calculation than?

 

[PhatD1ver]

I educate two bungee methods as standard:

1. Floating Loop. In my opinion, the best solution provided you have L/R-handed valves with stems. i.e. you own/dive, or can source when travelling, dedicated sidemount cylinders.

2. Separate Bungees w/bolt-snaps. In my opinion, the best solution when you primarily dive in locations where you won't get dedicated sidemount cylinders. This is the 'universal' method - best for travelling divers.

And I now have both in my dive bag, depending on where I am going, if they have dedicated tanks for their SM divers, I am golden with my floating loop, but in 90% of Asia, I'm looking at using the bungee/bolt snap method (which means you have to really know where your mounting hardware should go to get proper position and have your SPGs where you want them.

I've tried all three, to me there are two kinds of floating loops, the single and double. The single loop is easy to pullout and loop the valves, but it seems to allow more sag than I like. Recently I went to the double loop, which really helped tuck the tanks under my armpit more, brought my SPGs right in front of me, and 'tightened' up my rig overall. The ring bungee thing I gave a whirl, but it just didn't catch for me.

 

[PhatD1ver]

I am getting the impression you are not interested in discussion as long as your arguments are not accepted at face value.

Floating loops are attached to the webbing at the front in some way.
The best way I found was a 3-4mm Bungee 'D-ring' on the webbing below the shoulder D-ring.
That one can break and unknot however and thicker one is awkward and unravels knots even easier.

You can also use a boltsnap or connect it to the D-ring or a triglide.

All of those methods can fail and it is easy to provoke a failure for testing.

And then you lose access to the bungee on that side for the rest of the dive more often than not.

Ummm, I don't know anyone that would run a floating loop thru a spliced bungee loop, as Andy pointed out, the Xdeep uses a very thick rubber loop to run it, or as in the case on my rig, I run it thru my upper shoulder D-ring.

The part of you logic that still fails to explain itself is the idea that a continuous bungee loop (which means it's running from side to side around your back (and thru the shoulder plate (or an additional small back plate). Sure, when you load your left post, you are going to have plenty of slack in the bungee, and when you load the right, in theory, everything will tighten up. But, BUT!!! if that bungee breaks, and/or you are trying to match this method to diving in almost any Asian country (including the Philippines) you'll find that most shops don't have long stems or left right tanks. That means that if you try looping on the short stem (possible if you are really good with your hardware setup), if one tank pops and drops, you lose the other too, in almost EVERY case. In the case of a broken bungee, you are basically screwed.

Anyway, in my opinion, you could spend a little time with an experienced SM instructor and see what they offer in terms of helping you identify the real advantages and disadvantages.