Bungee types - again ;)

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You admit that you don't understand the problem. If I spend the time to explain the problem, will you absorb the lesson, or will you persist in arguing invalid hypothetical points?...
I will, but you cannot expect me not to argue it.

Just today went up on my back and down again below a concrete staircase 6 meters high, squeezing between steel girders and a 2m diameter pipe.
And that's only my equivalent of a 'pool' dive.

That is one of the places I used for simulation of 'inverted bungee failure - restricted'.
Even dropped both tanks there once (on purpose, of course) and went down to collect them then.

I do not see any problem with bungee failure, as long as you can accept stabilising yourself with one hand to the nearest wall or something.

The way my Razor is set up the tanks do not move, even if I cut the bungee off at the boltsnap.
The second tank does not destabilize, the bungee slips even less head down than when horizontal.
On the damaged side the tank can be stabilized with the arm, but inverted that isn't even necessary.
I my case, in a drysuit, with 20cm inflation hoses on both sides? I could finish that dive and the next before my buddy realizes something is missing.:wink:

So please tell me, seriously:
What am I missing?

I deeply respect your knowledge and experience, honestly.
I have known your internet persona for years now, took a lot of lessons from your posts.
Direct communication with you seems to be difficult for me, however :wink:

I would not even agree with god himself if he started arguing without being very convincing.
I am 'build' that way, need to be convinced.

In my experience my way of thinking helps a lot when trying to 'understand' how sidemount works, and we both know that is not that difficult, don't you agree?
 
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Knew you would have done something like that, but I do not understand the problem of a bungee failure then.

I like going down vertical shafts and always decent head first when my ears allow.
Simulated several bungee failures in those situations.
I do not see a problem.
In most cases I would finish descend, stabilize and remove and replace the bungee then.

I could also replace the bungee immediately, but it would rarely seem reasonable to stop descending for that.

Raz man, maybe its a cultural thing here, no one is trying to dis you. Andy is a great help. He has a long foundation behind him. I'd train with him (and plan to) as much as with Steve Martin, I think I'll get the same quality of training.

I recently trained with a awesome instructor in Malaysia (who I will refer to as JS), I showed up feeling about like you are acting with your comments here. I thought I knew my sidemount, I thought I had a 'trim' rig, I thought I had good buoyancy, and good underwater skills.

Over the course of four days, I was humbled. I found out my rig wasn't nearly as sleek as I liked, to the point to get the training done I wanted, I had to abandon it and borrow a loaner SMS100 (and that was clearly not the perfect solution, but it was the RIGHT solution for the training I was doing). I found out I did have okay basic sidemount skills, I would work task loaded and perform well. I could keep up with my gas, with the dive, and still react to emergency drills. But JS pushed me, he revamped my rig, we tightened up everything, my cylinder mounting, my reg and hose alignment, we worked with bungee set ups that made sense and really cradled the tank right under my armpit, but allowed me to easily check my SPG. There was a TON of stuff going on. Lots of learning, lots of homework, I was there on 'vacation' and spending literally ever minute I wasn't shoveling food in my face prepping my gear, in class reviewing the knowledge base I'd already come prepared for, learning detailed gas planning, all of it.

Point here is that a guy who could be considered one of the master trainers on the planet with Tec is trying to pass along good info, and you are just blowing him off.

Step back a second, take a deep breath, and say to yourself 3 times the following words "This guy (Andy) might be able to teach me something here". Then go back and read every post and suggestion he offered up to you. He isn't telling you to blindly change everything you are doing, he's offering suggestions and corrections to information that you've stated here. Maybe, just maybe you can learn something. Maybe it will be useful to you. Maybe, in one of your practice decent for those head down decents in a confined area, when a rental tank with only a stub stem slips off your bungee, and the opposite post goes with it, you'll realize the kind of danger you pose to yourself, and to the rest of the dive team you are working with.

Breath my friend, and keep breathing because you stop and listen for a minute.
 
Raz man, maybe its a cultural thing here, no one is trying to dis you. Andy is a great help. He has a long foundation behind him. I'd train with him (and plan to) as much as with Steve Martin, I think I'll get the same quality of training.
Just to point that out again.
I am well trained myself, I do not have to take sh*t from anybody anymore :wink:
No offense. :rolleyes:

I trained with one of Steve Martins instructors :cool: and I personally do not think that makes any difference.
I would still like to take specific training from him someday, but he has gotten ridiculously expensive and hard to reach.

I am 'gosidemount' trained myself. Indisputably one of the best sidemount certs money can buy.
Higher level gosidemount training is cave exclusive, the next natural cave is 8-12 hours of travel (one way, twice to get home) from my home base.
I took part in the first gosidemount basic training locally, there are 5 divers of my level of training locally, including local gosidemount instructors and excluding a small number of people who got the training in Mexico before that.

In my opinion getting more competent training would be difficult and the single sidemount capable and competent trimix and cave instructors I know locally are both my dive-buddys (we can learn more in mutual training than in certifing each other, I believe).

I try to progress a little on each dive and wait out the time until something changes.

Now, regarding attitudes and Andy:
I like what he is doing and have learned more than a few things by reading his posts.
His 'List of modern sidemount systems' is one of the links I most frequently share and quote from on facebook and in forums at the moment.
He has way more then 5 times my experience in dives and probably more than twice or three times my sidemount experience in numbers as well as in hours.
He has also been diving for more years than me and at more challenging locations.

Is he always right?
I am sure he is not :wink:

So calm down! :surrender:
I am not attacking anyone and I do not take offense permanently. :cheers:
 
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