Bungee types - again ;)

[Razorista]

As for continuous versus separate. I lose a grand total of 3" length and associated flexibility. No biggee... I've trialed 14+ types of bungee, so I'm fully in control of exactly how much flex and strength I desire for my tanks. I've used 14mm,12mm, 8mm, 6mm, 4mm, doubled 4mm, doubled 3mm... you name it... flex and strength isn't why you choose a bungee method... It's why you choose a bungee material.

Bungee method is chosen for cylinder control, security and to suit your diving needs.

You are missing the point I am trying to make.

When you pull on the single bungee without tanks attached you have access to the full bungee length for stretching, less effort.
With one tank attached you can pull that close giving you an additional 3-5cm to use on the other side.
You can shorten the bungee a good 10 cm because of that and still have no problem attaching valves.

 

[DevonDiver]

I'm confused by your interpretation of separate bungees. The only difference between separate and continuous is a snip and two overhand knots.

Either can be routed around stems, or around the cylinder neck w/valve handle also, if desired. I've seen many approaches.

However, continuous suffers the disadvantage of immediately detensioning/dropping the opposite cylinder if one side fails and/or is released.

That's might not be a drama in some circumstances, but in others it's a big issue. One cylinder out of control or two? Easy math..

Separate bungees do the same function, but without that risk. Hey presto... a winner.

The benefit of continuous bungee is that it can be added in a second... So it's good in the bottom of your bag when travelling.

Some might also keep a continuous bungee in their pouch to replace a failed bungee (of any type). But I personally prefer to use one of the double-enders I always carry... on a simple 440 neck choker (that also functions as a hard point for cylinders on entries).

 

[Razorista]

you have to have more than a handful of dives on a system because...

I stress test things.
When a system breaks I try to get more information, use that for modifications and retry.
If it fails a second and third time, however...
I do not need to repeat that for hundreds of dives, because most successful test dives I make end badly, wet, cold and miserable.

Loops proved dangerous to me time after time when I tried them with removed tanks or a prepared failure by damaging the bungee before the dive.
It is so easy for the front attachment to break and the bungee to snap back behind you somewhere, get stuck under the wing, become unreachable.
Ring bungees can make the tank unremoveable without help if you mishandle it on purpose and need at least two impossible cuts of bungee to remove with force.
...

 

[DevonDiver]

You are missing the point I am trying to make.

When you pull on the single bungee without tanks attached you have access to the full bungee length for stretching, less effort.
With one tank attached you can pull that close giving you an additional 3-5cm to use on the other side.
You can shorten the bungee a good 10 cm because of that and still have no problem attaching valves.

I get the point... But I view it as irrelevant really.

Properly sized and selected bungee shouldn't be difficult to manipulate in whatever method you choose.

I'm thinking that maybe your limited experience with separate bungees was on Hollis or something?? They ship with truly horrific bungee material... and aren't a reflection on separate bungee as a method.

 

[Razorista]

I'm confused by your interpretation of separate bungees.

I share the confusion.

The only difference between separate and continuous is a snip and two overhand knots.

That's what I am always repeating.

But the single bungee is longer when attaching cylinders and shorter when diving them.
Also the second loop can be used to access the other side's bungee if you cannot reach that.

However, continuous suffers the disadvantage of immediately detensioning/dropping the opposite cylinder if one side fails and/or is released.

It does not.
First of all the hoses hold the tank in place adequately.
They do not have to however.
A correctly setup single bungee system will not slip at the back without trying actively and purposefully to remove it.

That's might not be a drama in some circumstances, but in others it's a big issue. One cylinder out of control or two? Easy math..

Wouldn't, right. but does not happen, as I tried to explain.

Separate bungees do the same function, but without that risk. Hey presto... a winner.

No, you trade several real and easily provoked risks for one imagined one.

The benefit of continuous bungee is that it can be added in a second... So it's good in the bottom of your bag when travelling.

One of it's benefits, yes.

Some might also keep a continuous bungee in their pouch to replace a failed bungee (of any type).

But replacing a failed separate or loop bungee with it leaves you wit a lot of unused bungee tangled below and behind your arms.

But I personally prefer to use one of the double-enders I always carry... on a simple 440 neck choker (that also functions as a hard point for cylinders on entries).

But that is only a method to secure a save exit, not to continue the dive undistrurbed after a minute of bungee change,

 

[Razorista]

... maybe your limited experience with separate bungees was on Hollis or something?? ...

No, all on the same Razor.
When I tried a Hollis, none of the instructors had any idea what the bungees where and taught hard attaching standard stage rigging kits.

 

[DevonDiver]

Ido not need to repeat that for hundreds of dives, because most successful test dives I make end badly, wet, cold and miserable.

If you tested longer, you'd appreciate nuances and also rule out personal factors like familiarity or skill deficits.

Loops proved dangerous to me time after time when I tried them with removed tanks or a prepared failure by damaging the bungee before the dive.
It is so easy for the front attachment to break....

This is ludicrous. If you found the front attachment broke easily, then you'd done something fundamentally wrong in setup.

The 'weakest' method I've seen is knotted 6mm bungee. That's solid.

I use XDeep style o-rings as my front attachment points. They don't fail, I assure you.

No offence, but you really need to do more research before casting judgement...

I thought you wanted a discussion of relative merits, but it seems you've reverted into 'Razor Fan Boy' mode again?

 

[tbone1004]

i do see one conflicting comment up there. If the single piece bungee is able to be slid from one side to the other to ease attachment, then how is it supposed to support the tension from one of the tanks when it breaks? Will it slide out of the webbing? probably not, but it certainly won't stay where it is supposed to unless it is knotted, at which point it can't be removed, or slide. Those two 'benefits' that you propose conflict each other

 

[DevonDiver]

Wouldn't, right. but does not happen, as I tried to explain..., you trade several real and easily provoked risks for one imagined one.

That's cute.

Be assured that nothing is imagined on my behalf.

If you'd like to "explain" the realities of advanced overhead sidemount diving to me, perhaps you can start with your specific experience in the field?

I was under the impression you had none.. and were just imagining the issues involved?

I can see why you rile some people. I think it's cute in an overzealous and excitable way. I wouldn't want to discourage that passion. All I'd advise is that sidemount gets really fun when you're willing to approach it with an open mind. It's evolving constantly... and there's a great energy and dynamism to that. You're far too young to become so entrenched in a single method...

Perhaps it's a regional influence. I had an Austrian student the other week... flew to the Philippines for sidemount training. What he told me of the German sidemount scene was quite revealing... Perhaps you've become accustomed to certain negative attitudes and feel the need for an overly defensive posture because of that?

 

[Razorista]

...I thought you wanted a discussion of relative merits, but it seems you've reverted into 'Razor Fan Boy' mode again?

I am getting the impression you are not interested in discussion as long as your arguments are not accepted at face value.

Floating loops are attached to the webbing at the front in some way.
The best way I found was a 3-4mm Bungee 'D-ring' on the webbing below the shoulder D-ring.
That one can break and unknot however and thicker one is awkward and unravels knots even easier.

You can also use a boltsnap or connect it to the D-ring or a triglide.

All of those methods can fail and it is easy to provoke a failure for testing.

And then you lose access to the bungee on that side for the rest of the dive more often than not.