Buddy Inspiration and TDI insurance

[Bowson]

I'm confused, I've heard that TDI does not have any liability insurance for its instructors to be teaching the Buddy Inspiration rebreather program. I ran into a boat in Brockville Ontario Canada last weekend were Mike Fouler and one of the TDI's US board of director members were teaching the program. Is this or is this not a conflict of standards and against the law. I've also heard that the Buddy Inspiration rebreather has been band in the US until further investigations on its safety are determined by goverment officials. Just looking for answeres.

Bowson

 

[AquaTec]

I know a little bit about it as I will be recieving my Insperation any time now.

It is no longer call Buddy Insperation, the company split off and now it is simply Insperation. an intresting law in the UK required it

TDI is teaching or is about to teach courses on the Insperation.
I also understand that a course outline is being drafted right now, I am not sure if it has been excepted yet, but it will happen soon.

As for the Insperation in the US I beleive it is not allowed to be impported yet [or it could be that a dealership is not allowed to be set up] acualy i beleive the later is true.

the reason is that they can not get liability insurance on the unit as a whole. so I think they have been shipping them directly to instructors.

I know that IANTD is teaching the courses cause I just finished my down in the Caymans.

I had to buy mine directly from an instructor even here in Canada. however I heard that the same guy who just bought TDI Canada is also trying to buy the dealership for the Insperation. which has pissed off a few people.

so anyways this is a collection of roumers and tidbits that i have heard about. take all of it with a grain of salt

by the way the people on the boat where they Sean Harison and Rudi Asseer by chance

 

[Bowson]

Hi!

Yes I beleave those guys were on the boat. The big fat guy who was towing a long white trailer full of insperation rebreathers was a US TDI founder. Mike Fouler from England was also on board the Emely C. This course is not allowed to be taught at this time by TDI and those guys were in direct conflict of TDI standards and the Law of insurance liability. I have heard that heads will role over this one, whats the good of TDI if TDI staff and one of its founders break all there own rules. I've also heard that the young fellow with no experience but lots of dadies cash has purchased TDI from Chester in Muskoka and is like you said, trying to get a grip on the line of insperation rebreathers. I think Mike Fouler and his new lasie Helen are behind the push on that one.

 

[padiscubapro]

No it hasn't been banned...

TDI doesn't endorse the Inspiration while IN THE US. They do support it outside the US.. I have gotten conflicting information about the insurance coverage but by the way their policy is written if the course is taught in the US and its a class of either ANDI or IANTD the instructor should be covered. I know both ANDI and IANTD insurance cover the instructors.. My ANDI coverage has no depth limits on training either.


TDI will not endorse its programs in the US until there is a US distributor willing to take product liability insurance (at least this is what I have been told).

If you go by sheer numbers its probably the SAFEST rebreather out there. There may have been more total accidents than others but no other rebreather even comes close in the number of units being dived regularly(there are also lots of drager units out there but from what I have seen most divers dont stick with it). The latest numbers I hear is like 5000+ units sold. I have not seen 1 factual evidense that the rebreather caused any of the accidents, most accidents fit nicely into 3 categories, diving beyond ones training, health problems (people will debate this), ignoring warnings/reall dumb ass mistakes.. (like not turning on one oxygen supply). If there is any problem with the unit is that it usually works too flawlessly and may lead to complacency.. If there was a minor issue every now and then you'd keep all the divers honest.. For all practical reasons I have given up OC and almost exclusively dive my rebreather.. I'll never go back.. I have gotten so used to diving on a RB that last week I had to dive OC and it felt like I couldn't get enough gas to breathe.. I got so used to taking very deep breaths and releasing without any effect on buoyancy, that having to control my inhales/exhales on OC was driving me crazy.


I Recently brought in 3 units through US customs without any problems totally documented. IF there was a warning it would be listed on the US Product safety commission web site, were all warnings are issued.

Find a good instructor and take an intro rebreather class so you can get some of the facts straight, the worse thing you can do is talk to a diver who has no training.. its like asking a non diver what type of reg to purchase to go diving in the Artic.... Talk to the experts..

 

[Bowson]

Hi

The problem is that a US TDI instructor has come over the border and taught a course which is banned both in the US and Canada. Its a big no no.

 

[Bowson]

In case you havn't heard , the Insperation rebreather has now been banned in the US it has killed to many peaple and the US Goverment has classified it as a military weapon, banning it for sale to the general public. I no that many of you US divers have been smuggling them over the border from Canada in the past but that will change soon as well.

 

[padiscubapro]

No smuggling directly from the UK...


I am quite aware that your information is wrong.. The head of ANDI has been in contact with the FBI for sometime now. As of late he has been acting as a consultant with regard to divers... The FBI originally requested all of ANDI's training files which was promptly rejected (all other agencies have complied I have been told). The FBI visits HQ whenever they wish to examine a file...

The only Rebreathers that are classified as weapons are those with no magnetic signature...
Under current agreements the Inspiration could be freely moved between the US, Canada and the European Union any other place would require an export/import license.

Unmodified MK15s and 16s fit the bill.. To meet this requirement the rebreather would have to use special sensors which don''t have a magnetic signature for example r22dn the Inspiratiuon uses the magnetic variation.. Also all the metals would have to be replaced with special materials inclusing special tanks and valves ( like the ball shapped cylinders the MK15 uses). Also no standard scuba regs are available that aren't detectable (the inspiration uses apeks regs) Youd need something like the MK15 uses.

It would be much easier to convert something like a biopak60 (which can be purchase from any rescue supplier - or on Ebay) for covert applications than trying to totally rebuild an inspiration.

ALso for military applications the Inspiration would be too noisy, the solenoid is clearly audible (unlike the MK15) and has audible alarms (which I guess could be cut).

If you look through the documents for bureau and industry you will notice they word the restriction for any semi or closed circuit aparatus and the parts associated for the conversion in military use.. they also list a $ value exception limit of $5000.. The inspiration falls into this category at the wholesale level.. Especially if purchase without cylinders fro AP Valves which couldn't be used in the US anyway.

If you really wanted to get paranoid and see how conflicting restrictions are look at this..... Now tell me the whole scuba industry is illegal

8A992 Underwater systems or equipment, not controlled by 8A002, and specially designed parts therefor.

License Requirements

Reason for Control: AT

Control(s) Country Chart

AT applies to entire entry AT Column 1

License Exceptions

LVS: N/A
GBS: N/A
CIV: N/A

List of Items Controlled

Unit: $ value
Related Controls: N/A
Related Definitions: N/A
Items:

a. Underwater vision systems, as follows:
a.1. Television systems (comprising camera, lights, monitoring and signal transmission equipment) having a limiting resolution when measured in air of more than 500 lines and specially designed or modified for remote operation with a submersible vehicle; or

a.2. Underwater television cameras having a limiting resolution when measured in air of more than 700 lines;

Technical Note: Limiting resolution in television is a measure of horizontal resolution usually expressed in terms of the maximum number of lines per picture height discriminated on a test chart, using IEEE Standard 208/1960 or any equivalent standard.

b. Photographic still cameras specially designed or modified for underwater use, having a film formate of 35 mm or larger, and having autofocussing or remote focussing specially designed for underwater use;

c. Stroboscopic light systems, specially designed or modified for underwater use, capable of a light output energy of more than 300 J per flash;

d. Other underwater camera equipment, n.e.s.;

e. Other submersible systems, n.e.s.,;

f. Boats, n.e.s., including inflatable boats, and specially designed components therefor, n.e.s.;

g. Marine engines (both inboard and outboard) and submarine engines, n.e.s.; and specially designed parts therefor, n.e.s.;

h. Other self-contained underwater breathing apparatus (scuba gear) and related equipment, n.e.s.;

i. Life jackets, inflation cartridges, compasses, wetsuits, masks, fins, weight belts, and dive computers;
j. Underwater lights and propulsion equipment;

k. Air compressors and filtration systems specially designed for filling air cylinders.


B. TEST, INSPECTION AND PRODUCTION EQUIPMENT

 

[AquaTec]

I beleive that teaching a couse in either the US or Canada is not illigal.

I beleive that the people you mentioned where all together working out the details of the course that they would like to offer to the rest of Canada.

I do not see anything wrong with this either from an insurance or legality point of view.

Furthermore I beleive that they where taking the course from Mike who is an IANTD instructor Trainer for the Insperation
key word here is "IT"

That would tell me that real soon you will see a few TDI Instructors out there.

As far as the insurance thing goes...Marsh Agencies provides insurance for both IANTD and TDI and IANTD insperation instructors have the Marsh insurance so I would think that they would be more than willing to provide it to TDI once there is a curiculam developed.

I would also expect that what you saw was the development of that coriculum.

on a last note; I too have heard that the US has classified it as a weapon, but I think that it was removed almost as fast. i know quite a few insperation divers who have traveld to and from the states via air without any problem.

I think the real fun part is the buckets of white powder that moves around. we call it Sorb, but you would think that it would raise some eyebrows. we just imported a palet of it from the UK

 

[Bowson]

Buddy! Buddy!

TDI Does not have any insurance coverage for its instructors for the insperation rebreather not from Marsh or any other insurance company. This is why those guys were in direct conflict of TDI's mandate, standards or what ever you want to call it. TDI instructors can not and are not permitted to teach the Insperation in Canada.

 

[DrySuitDave]

Root word is to Inspire. Sorry, but I am a stickler for spelling, although perhaps the way I type I shouldn't throw stones in glass houses!

I just recently got my Inspiration and padispro is right, there are no restrictions on it whatsoever, as it it is not classified as a military weapon...mine was imported direct from England to the States.

As the Brits would say, what a nice kit.

Now, if only I could figure out this new Cochran Gemini 2 p02 computer....WAY more complicated then a CCR.....