Buddy Dive - bad attitude?

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So you're now accusing long-time posters of being BD sockpuppets, while joking about doing a background check on a first-time anonymous poster that is far more likely to be a sockpuppet of designbysue? Now that you bring up the idea, it is sort of odd that "Ump06" happened to witness every single "confrontation" experienced by designbysue, isn't it?

This is the first time that I have seen SBers search someone's photos on another webpage to try and discredit them here. And then justify it based on the lawsuit of diver deaths in the Maldives. The response has been incredibly hostile and abhorrent. All Sue did was relate what happened to her at BD and she has been attacked viciously for doing so. This thread denigrated to discussions of how obese her friend is; Why he is not a real instructor; How he could not "really" have needed the weight that he requested and why Sue cannot be trusted. Disgusting behavior from long time SBers.
 
Overly dramatic much? Questions were asked, ignored, asked, deflected.....there were attacks from both sides IMO.

Can't speak for anyone else, but that sure doesn't describe me.

This is reminding me of my old days as a school administrator. When I had to talk with people who were engaged in bullying behavior, they would never see anything wrong with what they were doing and go into a "he/she deserved it" defense mode to go along with their "I didn't do anything wrong" overall attitude. It was very hard to make them see it from another point of view.
 
This is reminding me of my old days as a school administrator. When I had to talk with people who were engaged in bullying behavior, they would never see anything wrong with what they were doing and go into a "he/she deserved it" defense mode to go along with their "I didn't do anything wrong" overall attitude. It was very hard to make them see it from another point of view.


Whatever John. In some threads I could accept that but in this thread I have been very well behaved. In almost every post I have tried to clearly addressed both sides of the equation in a reasonable and rational manner. I have not attacked anybody. I agree that a couple posts went over the top (and I stated so in my previous posts) but I am apparently the only one with my mind open in this exchange to see that this is NOT one sided.

Feel free to continue on with the dramatics if you wish. I for one will put my "big girl panties" on and not get upset.
 
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Now, I haven't the foggiest idea about this particular situation, but I sure do wish that so many people had not attacked the OP as rabidly as they did.

Would you care to highlight those numerous rabid attacks on the OP?? None jumped out at me in the first 50 posts.

When I saw the first few posts, I could not help but think the OP and her buddy may have gotten off to a bad start with BD and things went down hill from there with all parties involved. I'm not saying it the fault of one party or the other - just that they got off to a real bad start. When I asked the OP about the reason(s) for such an unusual weight request, the OP became somewhat hostile and accused me of being Irene. And the OP has yet to provide any reason for such an unusual weight need other than it is reasonably clear the weights were not intended to be distributed over a number of divers. Now, I do feel that a dive dive op has a responsibility to make some attempt to insure, as best they can, that divers are reasonably weighted. That is not under-weighted (probably corrected in the check out dive) and not so over-weighted that buoyancy control problems (and possible reef damage) are magnified by excessive weight. I further suspect that, just as the OP has refused to address any reason for the 24# need in this thread, she and her buddy persisted in a similar refusal at the dive shop. I guess there are folks here who believe it is none of the dive ops business why a diver might require 1 or 2 pounds or 25 or 50 pounds. Or maybe they feel that 24# is not an unusual request for warm tropical waters. We are just going to disagree on that.

Due to the OPs decision not to provide any rational, I have to make some assumptions. I assume that the divers physical appearance did not provide an obvious answer or the issue would probably never have come up in the dive shop. So the answer was probably in the thermal protection, Now, even a 3mm suit (not uncommon in the tropics) which someone other than the OP suggested has a buoyancy range of 4 to 10 pounds as a function for size and materials. A 5mm suit (somewhat uncommon in the tropics but not unheard of) might have explained the need on a larger diver to use 24# as they may provide 14 to 16 pounds buoyancy in larger sizes. With the group being from the NE, I even considered the possibility of a 7mm suit and that could easily put 24 lb of lead on even a smaller diver. But it is clear the OP chose not to reveal that here and, I suspect, refused to discuss it with the dive op. I am not now nor have I ever condoned a rude response from the dive OP, but it is fairly clear to me that there appears to be a lot more to the story than what the OP has chosen to present here. And, while I appreciate to new poster who substantiated the incident, that does not answer my concern that the responsibility for the initial incident is not one sided. I never really doubted the incident, only the actions of both parties that precipitated it. At this point, I do believe BD may well have been rude in response to an uncooperative client.
 
Would you care to highlight those numerous rabid attacks on the OP?? None jumped out at me in the first 50 posts.

When I saw the first few posts, I could not help but think the OP and her buddy may have gotten off to a bad start with BD and things went down hill from there with all parties involved. I'm not saying it the fault of one party or the other - just that they got off to a real bad start. When I asked the OP about the reason(s) for such an unusual weight request, the OP became somewhat hostile and accused me of being Irene. And the OP has yet to provide any reason for such an unusual weight need other than it is reasonably clear the weights were not intended to be distributed over a number of divers. Now, I do feel that a dive dive op has a responsibility to make some attempt to insure, as best they can, that divers are reasonably weighted. That is not under-weighted (probably corrected in the check out dive) and not so over-weighted that buoyancy control problems (and possible reef damage) are magnified by excessive weight. I further suspect that, just as the OP has refused to address any reason for the 24# need in this thread, she and her buddy persisted in a similar refusal at the dive shop. I guess there are folks here who believe it is none of the dive ops business why a diver might require 1 or 2 pounds or 25 or 50 pounds. Or maybe they feel that 24# is not an unusual request for warm tropical waters. We are just going to disagree on that.

Due to the OPs decision not to provide any rational, I have to make some assumptions. I assume that the divers physical appearance did not provide an obvious answer or the issue would probably never have come up in the dive shop. So the answer was probably in the thermal protection, Now, even a 3mm suit (not uncommon in the tropics) which someone other than the OP suggested has a buoyancy range of 4 to 10 pounds as a function for size and materials. A 5mm suit (somewhat uncommon in the tropics but not unheard of) might have explained the need on a larger diver to use 24# as they may provide 14 to 16 pounds buoyancy in larger sizes. With the group being from the NE, I even considered the possibility of a 7mm suit and that could easily put 24 lb of lead on even a smaller diver. But it is clear the OP chose not to reveal that here and, I suspect, refused to discuss it with the dive op. I am not now nor have I ever condoned a rude response from the dive OP, but it is fairly clear to me that there appears to be a lot more to the story than what the OP has chosen to present here. And, while I appreciate to new poster who substantiated the incident, that does not answer my concern that the responsibility for the initial incident is not one sided. I never really doubted the incident, only the actions of both parties that precipitated it. At this point, I do believe BD may well have been rude in response to an uncooperative client.

I may be wrong but I think insinuating outright that I am a liar in post 112 was a bit of an attack, but I could be wrong.

You continue to bang on the description of my buddy. I have NEVER said that there was no reason to question the amount of weight - NEVER - so please get over it. (to make you feel better - yes what I am saying is that "his physical appearance did not provide an obvious answer") I have stated that previously and have never denied that. What I have stated is that Irene started the "bad attitude" as soon as he asked for 24# and continued to be very condescending. I could understand it my buddy had a negative attitude to start - but though I can't convenience you of this - he did not. He simply asked for the weight he needed.

And as mentioned, folks have visited my website. I want to point out that I am not hiding behind a false name or identity as many others are here. You know my name, my website and see my pics. If I were to be dishonest don't you think I would do it under a different ID?
 
I may be wrong but I think insinuating outright that I am a liar in post 112 was a bit of an attack, but I could be wrong.

FWIW, I never took that post to be a direct reflection on you. I read it (perhaps incorrectly of course) as going to the extreme to prove their point. I could be wrong though. IF I am right, it is a good example of someone rabidly misinterpreting words on the internet as can happen with every word that is posted.

Fact of the matter is, any conversation where the quality of service is called into question of such an obvious "fan favorite" like Buddy Dive is bound to get backs arched. It is inevitable. And as is pointed out a thousand times a day (sorry for the dramatically overstated number :wink:), there is so much that is not conveyed over the internet, and the fact that people often feel rushed to post, things often are interpreted differently than the original intent. And, not unlike your friend's exchange with Irene, if the reply to the misinterpreted post gets the other person's back up then we end up where we are today.....although the dramatic performances are usually milder than they were in this thread. I stated above that this thread did good and I do believe that. I think that every post (I am assuming this because I will not go back and reread every post) had a valid point to it......maybe they were just written in cranky Irene language.

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To prove my point about people getting heated when their favorite thing is questioned, go back in this section and read all the threads about theft on Bonaire. Certain members went to great lengths to blow it drastically out of proportion and the "we love Bonaire" crowd defended their fair island. Another thousand examples exist on this board alone.....it is what it is.
 
Yep, a bunch of lawyers bobbing and weaving. Never mind the facts. I was interested in why Buddy Dive left a bad taste in my mouth, saw the question, read the obfuscating of our resident lawyers, and added my two cents. I understand that a lawyer's trade is to obfuscate the facts, but in this case, the facts are as stated. Obviously some here have never been to Buddy Dive or they would understand the procedures there. First, a bus packed to overflowing arrives at Buddy. That first day, you get your room assignment, get indoctrinated, pick up your weights, and do a check out dive. Let's focus on that second last item. To pick up your weights you all go to the same place. Ergo, something happens at the counter there are probably a dozen people in the vicinity. Second, to go on a boat dive, you all arrive at the dock with gear in preparation of the boarding process. A confrontation between a diver and a boat crew member will be witnessed by one to two dozen people. So yes, Mossman, I did see the confrontations as stated. By the way, if you wish to check the Holyoke YMCA records in the 50’s you should find me listed as an instructor. You could also check Schiff Scout Reservation in 1960’s for my WSI certification. Or my Wood Badge course. Just to give you a head start. To answer GYPSYJIM and Sue, I am writing a letter to Mr. Martien Van der Valk, the owner. Haven't finished yet because of a busy week. And yes, I had issues with Buddy that were not addressed by Sue. I will keep those between Mr. van der Valk and myself. I won't give these SB lawyers any further ammunition. Those that are interested in Buddy feedback, the crux of the problems was the dive operation. Now, talk about bad tastes in the mouth. I am sorry I even tried to correct the record on Scubaboard. It is obvious that facts have no bearing on what most of these people want to discuss. By the way, the gentleman with 24 lbs. I would estimate 6ft +, 200lbs. Definitely not fat.
 
This is the first time that I have seen SBers search someone's photos on another webpage to try and discredit them here. And then justify it based on the lawsuit of diver deaths in the Maldives. The response has been incredibly hostile and abhorrent. All Sue did was relate what happened to her at BD and she has been attacked viciously for doing so. This thread denigrated to discussions of how obese her friend is; Why he is not a real instructor; How he could not "really" have needed the weight that he requested and why Sue cannot be trusted. Disgusting behavior from long time SBers.
Obviously you're confused. It was a different "BD sockpuppet" who took a look at Sue's photos and noticed something awful enough to report here. I was the "BD sockpuppet" who mentioned the Maldives libel action. I haven't seen any hostility or abhorrence here except among some like you who are only here to point out how hostile and abhorrent everyone is. I'd give you an example of a real "vicious attack", but then I'd be booted off this heavily moderated board and that wouldn't be any fun. No one said her friend was obese; in fact, I pointed out the opposite, that if he were obese, the 24 lbs weight request wouldn't have bothered Irene so much. No offense, but it would be nice if you'd comment on what's actually posted here and not whatever springs forth from your fervent imagination. Thank you.

This is reminding me of my old days as a school administrator. When I had to talk with people who were engaged in bullying behavior, they would never see anything wrong with what they were doing and go into a "he/she deserved it" defense mode to go along with their "I didn't do anything wrong" overall attitude. It was very hard to make them see it from another point of view.
You quoted me as saying "Can't speak for anyone else, but that sure doesn't describe me." It sure would be nice if you'd quote me in context. I was being accused of being a Buddy Dive supporter ("BD sockpuppet") when the truth is that I have no love at all for BD. Hence, I said "that sure doesn't describe me." Call me a bully if you want, I won't cry over it, but at least be honest when you attempt to cite factual support for that notion.

By the way, the gentleman with 24 lbs. I would estimate 6ft +, 200lbs. Definitely not fat.
So with your long-time instructor background, why didn't you also try correcting the gentleman who was obviously overweighting himself? When I see someone on a dive boat who obviously has no clue, I always try to make helpful suggestions. But I guess that's just the bully in me, and the proper comportment is to stand by and watch someone potentially kill himself.
 
I may be wrong but I think insinuating outright that I am a liar in post 112 was a bit of an attack, but I could be wrong.

You continue to bang on the description of my buddy. I have NEVER said that there was no reason to question the amount of weight - NEVER - so please get over it. (to make you feel better - yes what I am saying is that "his physical appearance did not provide an obvious answer") I have stated that previously and have never denied that. What I have stated is that Irene started the "bad attitude" as soon as he asked for 24# and continued to be very condescending. I could understand it my buddy had a negative attitude to start - but though I can't convenience you of this - he did not. He simply asked for the weight he needed.

I did not see post 112 as accusing anyone of being a liar.

So you do seem to be agreeing that there was reason to question the weight request. It is not something that has to be gotten over. It seems that some posters believe that a dive op should never question a weight request - but it is apparent, now, that you are not one of them. So, your buddy asked for 24# and Irene gave "bad attitude". What does that mean?

Don't get me wrong. I have witnessed less than the friendliest attitude in dealings with BD and many other places. Our first trip to Bonaire, my wife was gearing up for a check-out dive and a DM saw her put on a glove. He could have said, "Mame, gloves are not allowed in the marine park." Instead he said something like, "Lady, if I see you with gloves in the marine park you will lose your diving privileges." I saw it more as a little something lacking in dealing with customers rather than bad attitude. And I focus on this particular event (the weights) because this, to me, seems to be the tone setter for the rest of the trip and the other problems. I do fully agree with you that tanks should be checked before they are loaded on the boats. But I doubt if the dive guide who was so unhelpful had much to do with that decision. Severely light fills are unacceptable and should be reflected in any tips. I tend to doubt if other things like nitrox percentage, mask cleaner, and dive shops questions were really a problem other than how they were handled by the dive op. And I just don't understand how your buddy failed to disarm the initial problem with an explanation of why so much weight was required. I can see how that situation could have gotten out of hand and lead to rude behavior. I just don't see why you all (customers and dive shop) let that snowball at the start of a vacation. I take it (assume) you stuck to your guns and never did provide any reason - just insisted that 24# is what was needed.
 
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