Breathing rate, air integrated computers and DCI correlation

[beaverdivers]

Dr Deco's posts define workload as exercise. Breathing fast and and shallow is not exercise

However if you exercise, then your breathing does increase. Moreover if you aren't breathing correctly during exercise, you may have short shallow breathing.

Even though I just posted it, I feel it bears repeating. Breathing fast and shallow does not equal exercising

The heart rate is directly linked to the puming action of the heart, thus it is a more direct indicator of workload.

However, there often is a close correlation between heart rate & respiration.

Therefore, we can use transitive logic to deduce that workload correlates to respiration.

 

[JohnN]

However if you exercise, then your breathing does increase. Moreover if you aren't breathing correctly during exercise, you may have short shallow breathing. The heart rate is directly linked to the puming action of the heart, thus it is a more direct indicator of workload.

However, there often is a close correlation between heart rate & respiration.

Therefore, we can use transitive logic to deduce that workload correlates to respiration.

STUNNING!!! Apples are red. Red is a color. Therefore Apples are a color.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Her short shallow breathing caused inefficient off gasing of nitrogen resulting in DCS.

As has already been said in far more words than should have been necessary, this "is not even wrong."

 

[knotical]

As has already been said in far more words than should have been necessary, this "is not even wrong."

Just in case some readers take "not even wrong" literally: Not even wrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CT Sean]

However if you exercise, then your breathing does increase. Moreover if you aren't breathing correctly during exercise, you may have short shallow breathing. The heart rate is directly linked to the puming action of the heart, thus it is a more direct indicator of workload.

However, there often is a close correlation between heart rate & respiration.

Therefore, we can use transitive logic to deduce that workload correlates to respiration.

No - you can't

I realize there's no actual point in arguing this but you're confusing cause and effect. An increase in workload causes and increase in heart rate, which in turn causes and increase in respiration. It doesn't work the other way. If it did, health clubs would be out of business. People would just sit around and breathe hard and burn the calories away

If you had said that your diver's heart was pounding away at 150 bpm for the whole dive, then I think you'd have a leg to stand on. However, you said she has a breathing rate (amount of gas consumed over time) equal to or better than average, but has a higher than normal breathing frequency (number of breath cycles over time). Just because your computer thinks she was doing more work, doesn't mean she was.

 

[mathauck0814]

I honestly feel for the customers at this person's shop who don't have the larger community to point out how misguided their arguments are. Somewhere, someplace in Colorado, there is an entire community who believes this crap because they don't know any better.

 

[beaverdivers]

An increase in workload causes and increase in heart rate, which in turn causes and increase in respiration. It doesn't work the other way...higher than normal breathing frequency (number of breath cycles over time). Just because your computer thinks she was doing more work, doesn't mean she was.

When we downloaded her dives of her post DCS dives, the profiles were solid red with a constant workload alarm. Her computer that could not measure workload was perfect, no red, no alarms. Don't you think the air integrated computer was indicating something?

She did get DCS due to her incorrect diving behavior.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

When we downloaded her dives of her post DCS dives, the profiles were solid red with a constant workload alarm. Her computer that could not measure workload was perfect, no red, no alarms. Don't you think the air integrated computer was indicating something?

No, and neither do you: you feel it. Try not to confuse the two actions.

She did get DCS due to her incorrect diving behavior.

I very much doubt even a hyperbaric physician treating her could venture to give a conclusive statement about the cause of a given DCS hit; coming from you, it's merely laughable.

 

[herbdb]

I don't know about this woman and her DCS.

But, it does bother me that a few of you cannot accept the idea that for most people, most of the time - your heart rate and respiration change when your physical exertion level changes. Sure other things can have the same result, but they are unusual. Most divers are not prone to panic attacks or hyperventilation, in fact we pay a lot of attention to our breathing.

Our current table procedures recognize that increased workload does affect N2 loading. Using rapid breathing or increased heart rate as an indicator that workload has increased does not seem so out there to me.

What is wrong with having the option for the computer to make changes in a more conservative direction based on this? I have experimented with this setting on my computer using an audible alarm and it definitely comes on only when I am working hard, usually in heavy current.

So all nastiness aside, what is wrong with this other than it won't work in every situation.

 

[Lopez116]

I don't know about this woman and her DCS.

But, it does bother me that a few of you cannot accept the idea that for most people, most of the time - your heart rate and respiration change when your physical exertion level changes. Sure other things can have the same result, but they are unusual. Most divers are not prone to panic attacks or hyperventilation, in fact we pay a lot of attention to our breathing.

Our current table procedures recognize that increased workload does affect N2 loading. Using rapid breathing or increased heart rate as an indicator that workload has increased does not seem so out there to me.

What is wrong with having the option for the computer to make changes in a more conservative direction based on this? I have experimented with this setting on my computer using an audible alarm and it definitely comes on only when I am working hard, usually in heavy current.

So all nastiness aside, what is wrong with this other than it won't work in every situation.

I'm glad you posted this because I was thinking the same thing...I feel like I am missing something. The computer is basically making an educated guess that you're working harder (based on your breathing rate). Yes, there could be other reasons, but generally it's because you are working harder.

If you are simply breathing hard and fast (and not actually from exertion), yes, i guess you'd be needlessly penalized by the computer in such a scenario because you wouldn't actually be increasing your risk of DCS just by breathing harder. For all intents and purposes, the computer would be wrong here. But, for all the other (probably many more) times you actually are breathing harder because you are working harder, the computer would be right, right?

It's an oversimplification by the computer, and if you don't like that generalization, you can just turn the feature off, no?

FWIW I don't have a Scubapro anything. This discussion just fascinates me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2