BP/W questions

[almitywife]

The Oxycheq Mach V Extreme is by far the most durable wing on the market in my opinion, and I own two of them. Anything that narrow and streamlined, and that can withstand razor slashes and darts is the best in my book any day. I love the way it dives and trims out too.

i didnt believe this until i saw it myself about 3 weeks ago

 

[Hoosier]

But, Mach V Extreme is a single wing, not a double... Am I right?

 

[cold_water]

By the way, the transpac is not a BP/W. It's streamlined, and has some nice features, but it is not a bp/w since it has no plate.

This is slightly OT, but let me ask still. Technically, you're right, although I admit I don't know fi there's an actual metal plate inside the transpac or a plastic lump, but nonetheless, I'll take your word for it. You probably know better than I do. Question is, thoug, given that:

-within the dive rite system, you can use all the wings they make both on the BP and transpac, you can use the same weight system, the different accessories, the pockets and what not
-One can mount both singles and doubles on the BP and the transpac
-the transpac harness (waist strap and shoulder strap position) are pretty much identical

is there really an advantage to using the BP over the transpac aside from the (dare I say) slight reduction in bulk due to removing the padding and "back plastic mounting support" by replacing it by a plate? Is that reduction sufficient to justify using the BP for applications where size is important, like wreck penetration or cave diving? Is that the only advantage?

I'm asking genuinely, since I'm not a very experienced diver and I've been looking at bp and wings myself for a while, wondering if I should make the switch soon. I'm thinking of buying a bp/wing combo soon and was looking at the transpac. I don't think my diving really justifies getting a proper BP, although, with diverite, since they're interchangeable, if I ever see the need, I could always get one of their proper BP and use that for the dives where it would be necessary, although I can't foresee that at the time being.

 

[jiveturkey]

The DSS plate itself is the best one on the market in my opinion.

Serious question: what's the difference? Aren't they just hunks of shaped metal?

 

[CompuDude]

But, Mach V Extreme is a single wing, not a double... Am I right?

Correct. I think OxyCheq makes doubles wings in the Extreme version also, however, although I have not gone to their site to verify this.

 

[CompuDude]

Serious question: what's the difference? Aren't they just hunks of shaped metal?

To a point. Tobin's plates have some extras, however, such as Delrin inserts which stop the harness from slipping, and in particular, when used with his wings, there are extras allowing the wings to snap in place, without need for STAs, etc., for ease of assembly, yadda yadda. More info on his website, as I didn't intend for this to a commercial, but merely to point out his plates have a little bit more to them than a slab of steel. It's a system that brings a lot to the table.

I'll note that some of the advantages the DSS wing offers are negated or even turned into disadvantages if you're not using a DSS wing. Arguably, in certain specific circumstances and gear combos (non DSS wing + STA for one), one of his plates may not work quite as well as more plain variety of plate.

 

[PerroneFord]

Serious question: what's the difference? Aren't they just hunks of shaped metal?

While I am a fan of the elastomer inserts on the DSS stainless steel plate, the real innovation is the kydex plate. No one else has anything that touches it.

 

[CompuDude]

This is slightly OT, but let me ask still. Technically, you're right, although I admit I don't know fi there's an actual metal plate inside the transpac or a plastic lump, but nonetheless, I'll take your word for it. You probably know better than I do. Question is, thoug, given that:

-within the dive rite system, you can use all the wings they make both on the BP and transpac, you can use the same weight system, the different accessories, the pockets and what not
-One can mount both singles and doubles on the BP and the transpac
-the transpac harness (waist strap and shoulder strap position) are pretty much identical

is there really an advantage to using the BP over the transpac aside from the (dare I say) slight reduction in bulk due to removing the padding and "back plastic mounting support" by replacing it by a plate? Is that reduction sufficient to justify using the BP for applications where size is important, like wreck penetration or cave diving? Is that the only advantage?

I'm asking genuinely, since I'm not a very experienced diver and I've been looking at bp and wings myself for a while, wondering if I should make the switch soon. I'm thinking of buying a bp/wing combo soon and was looking at the transpac. I don't think my diving really justifies getting a proper BP, although, with diverite, since they're interchangeable, if I ever see the need, I could always get one of their proper BP and use that for the dives where it would be necessary, although I can't foresee that at the time being.

The transpac is not a bp/w. It does not have a plate.

It has two metal inserts you can purchase that give it (barely, IMO) enough stability to be used for doubles, but most of those I have talked to that tried eventually got a plate for doubles use.

A bp/w works just as well as a transpac for singles, and is far superior for doubles. A transpac works acceptable well for singles, but not nearly as well for doubles. It seems clear to me which is the more versatile.

You can't, to my knowledge, use the Transpac harness on a backplate. Even if you could, I guarantee you the assembly would be painful enough you would only want to do it once, and then would promptly get another harness.

Once you start to appreciate the simplicity of a bp/w system (and I'll include the transpac for this limited example), if you have one of the more elaborate harness setups with extra D-rings, etc., at some point you will likely realize that all that extra stuff actually limits you. You may want the D-rings slightly higher or lower, and will not have the option of moving them because it's fixed in place (or with very little play). Also, while having extra d-rings seems like a great idea at first, it doesn't take long to come to the realization that more is not always better. A single D-ring can hold an enormous amount of gear clipped to it. And if there is only one d-ring in one location, it becomes a whole lot easier to develop the muscle memory to clip off gear. Point being, a lot of people who start out with an elaborate harness end up migrating to a simpler one, even if they don't go all the way to a pure hogarthian harness. With a bp/w, the good news is it's quite simple and inexpensive to downgrade to the simpler setup. It's not an option at all with the transpac.

There is no "size advantage" to one or the other in the water. There is, however, a stability advantage to the bp/w, especially when loaded up with doubles and other gear. Similarly, there is only a very minor difference in comfort between a transpac and a bp/w... and you can only feel the different if you're diving with a t-shirt or less as your exposure protection. All that padding really doesn't do anything for you in the water, which is where it counts. Try to remember that when you're standing (vertically) in the showroom: It's not representative in the slightest as to how it will feel when horizontal in the water.

 

[PerroneFord]

This is slightly OT, but let me ask still. Technically, you're right, although I admit I don't know fi there's an actual metal plate inside the transpac or a plastic lump, but nonetheless, I'll take your word for it. You probably know better than I do. Question is, thoug, given that:

There is no metal plate inside. I called Dive Rite and asked. And I looked for myself later. When I was looking to buy a BP/W the saleperson tried to sell me a transpac instead and I wouldn't buy until I did some research...

-within the dive rite system, you can use all the wings they make both on the BP and transpac, you can use the same weight system, the different accessories, the pockets and what not

This is true. However, the question is HOW do they mount? And do you want to use Dive Rite's wings, weight system, and accessories. For me, the answer was no. I didn't particularly care for their wings, I wore a basic weightbelt which I prefered, and I didn't want to use any of the accessories.

-One can mount both singles and doubles on the BP and the transpac

Have you ever seen doubles mounted on the transpac? How about a rebreather? That's one we do at the shop regularly. It took me about 10 minutes to fit a Megalodon rebreather to my BP/W. Fitting the new transpac to a student Meg took quite a lot longer. Over an hour to be exact. Doubles aren't clean either.

-the transpac harness (waist strap and shoulder strap position) are pretty much identical

Note where the D-Rings fall. For technical divers, who like to tuck their lights under their arms attached to a d-ring, and who carry decompression bottles on that d-ring, and stage bottles, the d-ring position is very important. Unfortunately with the transpac teh adjustability simply cannot match a hog harness. I've tried it.

is there really an advantage to using the BP over the transpac aside from the (dare I say) slight reduction in bulk due to removing the padding and "back plastic mounting support" by replacing it by a plate? Is that reduction sufficient to justify using the BP for applications where size is important, like wreck penetration or cave diving? Is that the only advantage?

For my intended use, the BP/W is a better choice. For others that may well not be true. If I was doing primarily single tank diving, not slinging tanks, or planning to scooter, then the Transpac would be quite a nice option. The plate in a traditional BP/W system acts as a spine, holding all the parts together. Honestly, if I had to jump in the water with a couple stage bottles attached and a set of 104's on my back, I don't think I'd trust the Transpac. Doesn't meant it's not a good system.

I'm asking genuinely, since I'm not a very experienced diver and I've been looking at bp and wings myself for a while, wondering if I should make the switch soon. I'm thinking of buying a bp/wing combo soon and was looking at the transpac. I don't think my diving really justifies getting a proper BP, although, with diverite, since they're interchangeable, if I ever see the need, I could always get one of their proper BP and use that for the dives where it would be necessary, although I can't foresee that at the time being.

There are certainly lots of ways to go. The Transpac is a great option for a lot of people. For me, buying a BP/W ensured me that no matter how far I wanted to push my diving, cave, wreck, rebreather, multiple stage, etc., my system would always move with me. It would offer infinte adjustability. The "spine" of the system would never fail. And the harness would cost $12 to change. I could change wings in 1 minute flat without tools, regardless of who's name was on the wing. In other words, it was infinitely flexible, inexpensive, and brand agnostic. I try not to lock myself into proprietary solutions if I can possibly do so. You have to make the right choice for you and your diving.

 

[cold_water]

Thanks all for the info, quite appreciated. I may have worded some things incorrectly. When I said that the dive rite BP, transpac (and transplate, I guess) could all use the same weight system and accessories, I didn't mean you were locked in. It was my impression that the waist strap was only a 2" strap really, you could add whatever you want that would fit a 2" strap, no? Maybe that's not the case.

I hadn't realized there was less adjustability with their transpac than with other bp. Also, I wasn't implying that one would use a back plate fastened on top of a transpac, but simply that the design of the shoulder straps and waist straps was the same. On that note, is the lac of adjustability noted on the transpac D-rings also a problem with the dive-rite bp?

There are certainly lots of ways to go. The Transpac is a great option for a lot of people. For me, buying a BP/W ensured me that no matter how far I wanted to push my diving, cave, wreck, rebreather, multiple stage, etc., my system would always move with me. It would offer infinte adjustability. The "spine" of the system would never fail. And the harness would cost $12 to change. I could change wings in 1 minute flat without tools, regardless of who's name was on the wing. In other words, it was infinitely flexible, inexpensive, and brand agnostic. I try not to lock myself into proprietary solutions if I can possibly do so. You have to make the right choice for you and your diving.

The dive rite BackPlate, Transplate and transpac all share the same wings. I would expect that the backplate can take wings from other manufacturers without a problem. Does that mean the transpac can accept any wing also? Or is that not the case?