BP/W phenomenon

[FIXXERVI6]

Don't be so sure of that. I've seen plenty of "coral walkers" and "silt dusters" in a BP/W setup ... it's more common to see it happen with people in a vest style BCD simply due to sheer numbers, more of them are sold to Joe Average off the street.

Wouldn't happen to have been OMS rigs would it?

 

[Hoosier]

What are you talking about?



We are talking about a trend and market share of BP/W rig. in rec. diving industry in this thread. We don’t need to talk about how much skill rec. divers have because un-practiced and lack of diving skills won’t be solved even though they dive with BP/W set up. No matter what un-skilled rec. divers did in your viewpoints, they are also the rec. divers, not the tech divers who mostly use BP/W rig.



My point is that many BP/W supporters in our board are already beyond the rec. level. Don’t be silly. I am also BP/W diver (you can verify it if you check my previous posts and threads.) But, I don’t think it is pretty much necessary and mandatory set up for the rec. divers. Of course, BP/W rig. has many advantages compared to the ordinary BCDs depending on your diving style. But, you can’t argue that one configuration is better for every types of diving. Please let me know if you know any item can be fitted to any environment. I had better invest my money on that company.



As for the skill, how can you except that many OW divers should have better skills to enjoy their diving? All rec. divers aren’t like you or us including myself. I have seen many rec. divers who just want to dive 10 days per year on the vacation or are only able to dive one week per year due to their various limits, such as time, money, or etc…. So, they aren’t the divers in your perspectives? I am sure many instructors, DMs, charters, and dive shops will be upset if they don’t come to dive.



Sure, I agree with your point, “The more instructors use BP/W rig, the more rec. divers will use it.” Because the most common advice we have here is, “talk with your instructor before buying the equipment.” If then, BP/W manufactures should convince the rec. instructors that BP/W is the best for OW students. But, I don’t see any instructors who recommend or force me to get BP/W rig in rec. diving training. I have seen many instructors who were making fun of DIR guys though.



So, no matter what you and I said, the market will tell us how people think. But, BP/W manufactures still didn’t make a market except this board and tech industry.

I look at BP/W an evolution in diving, most people start out unkowning and hit the OW class in a jacket style BC and you take in what they teach you, when you get out of class you usually go to that shop and buy equipment and dive dive dive or vacation dive, you never come accross anything different.

Then one day you come accross a cave diver and they have this wicked looking rig thats way different then anything you've ever seen so you start asking questions, get some ideas, hit the internet do some surfing in those areas and find out all kinds of stuff and start slowly trying it out until one day... your wearing jet fins and a BP setup, this was my route, I tried to stay open minded, tried back inflate BC's as opposed to the uncomfortable looking BP rig, then eventually went straight BP/w, tried different fins along the way, even *gasp* those dreaded split fins that were so bad they almost made me throw up under water (another story), the more I kept leaning into the standard BP/W setups the more I found they worked great, better, like evolution.

I've never seen a diver in a standard BP/W configuration hit the water and become a "reef walker" where as I've seen too many setups where I look accross the boat to a diver with a fancy vest with all kinds of doodads, guages dangling, octo dangling, ankle weights and split fins walking on coral when we hit the bottom.

Now dont' flame me I'm not saying everyone in a vest walks on coral, but my point there is most likely that diver has never been educated beyond OW, and yes they were walking on the coral foot in front of foot along the bottom, after I watched the end of the fin cause a small coral head to explode when he tried to step over it I couldn't look anymore.

I expect you will NEVER see a diver in a backplate and wing setup do this, why? Because you have to evolve WAY above OW to get into the areas that push these setups, OW divers use standard BC's and such because thats what those circles push, if OW classes were taught in BP/W setups I expect you would see a LOT more of them on the vacation diver market.

I'm a BP/W fan, but I didn't start that way and I didn't start in areas like in florida where these kinds of setups are common, I worked my way up to the setup trying out gear long the way, yes it cost me lots of money but in the end I know I didn't just jump on the BP wagon so I could be "cool" or look "techie" I tried lots of other gear that just didn't work as well and eventually ended up here.

 

[djanni]

My point is that many BP/W supporters in our board are already beyond the rec. level. Of course, BP/W rig. has many advantages compared to the ordinary BCDs depending on your diving style.

Hoosier,

Obviously, I narrowed your post down to the above.

I'm not picking on you because I see this attitude all the time here but are you listening to yourself?

BP/W divers have better skills? Tec divers have better skills? Bull do-do! You guys talk about "REC" divers like they're stupid. Oh, God, it's a dumb rec diver. Oh, he's been diving 20 years and still too stupid to wear a bp/w. Bp/w divers are already beyond the REC level? What's that crap???

Again, Hooser I'm not ranting at you personally but at all you guys for your arrogance.
The SAD part is you're so over the top with it it makes you look silly. It's like you push bp/w rigs so damn hard on people because it somehow helps you justify your own purchase.

I've seen where people write, "if you haven't tried it you don't know what you're missing." Oh, really... I think you say that because of your own insecurity with your own choices. I don't need to go drive a little ford pickup truck to know I don't want one and I don't have to go drive a Q45 to know I would love it.

You bp/w lovers are like MAC users. A little cult who look down their respective noses at anyone who doesn't immediately recognize the superiority of a MAC or of a bp/w.

It just isn't true. If the MAC system was best it would be the most popular. If the bp/w was best it would be the most popular. And don't spew all the marketing BS it doesn't wash. And bp/w rigs have been around for ever. It's not something new.

There's no doubt in my mind that bp/w rigs are good bc's. In specific applications and circumstances I imagine they excel. In specific applications and circumstances the MAC excels.

Fad's come and go. If there is any quantifiable increase in BP/w rigs sales it want last. Bp/w's are speciality rigs and they will never reach main stream popolarity except in the minds of some the members of this board.

Bp/w rigs have their place and that's great. I just hate to see them pushed down ever newbie's throat as if they would be idiots not to buy one.

BTW: Did you recommand Venture wing or the Travel wing????

 

[Hoosier]

I don't understand what you are trying to say to me. I didn’t say, “BP/W divers are better skilled diver.” That is your phrase, not mine. Are you really listening to yourself? I said, “Many BP/W supporters here are beyond rec. diving skills.” You can figure out who they are. And, my point is, “They recommend BP/W rigs based on their current levels and demands, not based on the new OW divers’ demands. Most rec. divers aren’t interested in any tech diving and any advanced diving skills.



Me!. I have never though myself as an advanced diver. So, don’t make fun of me, ever! I am a pretty newbie in this sport. I decided to go to tech diving and RB. So, I decide to buy BP/W rig. Why? Many tech instructors recommend having BP/W set up like a double tank with the manifold. I am still enjoying a jacket BC and back inflation BC every weekend. And, I don't find any problem with these BCD so far.



You have already mentioned my arguments by yourself:

“In specific applications and circumstances I imagine they excel. In specific applications and circumstances the MAC excels.”



So, what is your argument?



P.S. I dive with Halcyon so that I can't give any idea about DR wing.

Hoosier,

Obviously, I narrowed your post down to the above.

I'm not picking on you because I see this attitude all the time here but are you listening to yourself?

BP/W divers have better skills? Tec divers have better skills? Bull do-do! You guys talk about "REC" divers like they're stupid. Oh, God, it's a dumb rec diver. Oh, he's been diving 20 years and still too stupid to wear a bp/w. Bp/w divers are already beyond the REC level? What's that crap???

Again, Hooser I'm not ranting at you personally but at all you guys for your arrogance.
The SAD part is you're so over the top with it it makes you look silly. It's like you push bp/w rigs so damn hard on people because it somehow helps you justify your own purchase.

I've seen where people write, "if you haven't tried it you don't know what you're missing." Oh, really... I think you say that because of your own insecurity with your own choices. I don't need to go drive a little ford pickup truck to know I don't want one and I don't have to go drive a Q45 to know I would love it.

You bp/w lovers are like MAC users. A little cult who look down their respective noses at anyone who doesn't immediately recognize the superiority of a MAC or of a bp/w.

It just isn't true. If the MAC system was best it would be the most popular. If the bp/w was best it would be the most popular. And don't spew all the marketing BS it doesn't wash. And bp/w rigs have been around for ever. It's not something new.

There's no doubt in my mind that bp/w rigs are good bc's. In specific applications and circumstances I imagine they excel. In specific applications and circumstances the MAC excels.

Fad's come and go. If there is any quantifiable increase in BP/w rigs sales it want last. Bp/w's are speciality rigs and they will never reach main stream popolarity except in the minds of some the members of this board.

Bp/w rigs have their place and that's great. I just hate to see them pushed down ever newbie's throat as if they would be idiots not to buy one.

BTW: Did you recommand Venture wing or the Travel wing????

 

[jiveturkey]

I look at BP/W an evolution in diving, most people start out unkowning and hit the OW class in a jacket style BC and you take in what they teach you, when you get out of class you usually go to that shop and buy equipment and dive dive dive or vacation dive, you never come accross anything different.

Then one day you come accross a cave diver and they have this wicked looking rig thats way different then anything you've ever seen so you start asking questions, get some ideas, hit the internet do some surfing in those areas and find out all kinds of stuff and start slowly trying it out until one day... your wearing jet fins and a BP setup, this was my route, I tried to stay open minded, tried back inflate BC's as opposed to the uncomfortable looking BP rig, then eventually went straight BP/w, tried different fins along the way, even *gasp* those dreaded split fins that were so bad they almost made me throw up under water (another story), the more I kept leaning into the standard BP/W setups the more I found they worked great, better, like evolution.

I've never seen a diver in a standard BP/W configuration hit the water and become a "reef walker" where as I've seen too many setups where I look accross the boat to a diver with a fancy vest with all kinds of doodads, guages dangling, octo dangling, ankle weights and split fins walking on coral when we hit the bottom.

Now dont' flame me I'm not saying everyone in a vest walks on coral, but my point there is most likely that diver has never been educated beyond OW, and yes they were walking on the coral foot in front of foot along the bottom, after I watched the end of the fin cause a small coral head to explode when he tried to step over it I couldn't look anymore.

I expect you will NEVER see a diver in a backplate and wing setup do this, why? Because you have to evolve WAY above OW to get into the areas that push these setups, OW divers use standard BC's and such because thats what those circles push, if OW classes were taught in BP/W setups I expect you would see a LOT more of them on the vacation diver market.

I'm a BP/W fan, but I didn't start that way and I didn't start in areas like in florida where these kinds of setups are common, I worked my way up to the setup trying out gear long the way, yes it cost me lots of money but in the end I know I didn't just jump on the BP wagon so I could be "cool" or look "techie" I tried lots of other gear that just didn't work as well and eventually ended up here.

This post gets my vote for biggest crock of **** I've read this year.

 

[djanni]

I don't understand what you are trying to say to me. I didn’t say, “BP/W divers are better skilled diver.” That is your phrase, not mine. Are you really listening to yourself? I said, “Many BP/W supporters here are beyond rec. diving skills.” You can figure out who they are. And, my point is, “They recommend BP/W rigs based on their current levels and demands, not based on the new OW divers’ demands. Most rec. divers aren’t interested in any tech diving and any advanced diving skills.

See... there you go again. Listen to what you're saying.

Me!. I have never though myself as an advanced diver. So, don’t make fun of me, ever!

I didn't. I also said twice I'm not singling you out. Relax.

P.S. I dive with Halcyon so that I can't give any idea about DR wing.

Man, that was just a joke about the wings.

 

[jepuskar]

Guys, calm the heck down....take the BS flame crap to some other thread.....I really dont care about BC/BP debate...there are probably 50 other threads on this.....this thread is about the seemingly growing popularity of BP/W in my eyes.

 

[paolov]

for the record i have BP/W and JAcket style BCD. i still say, go and check out different styles and find out what you prefer. where you are comfortable with, but with some leaning on BP/w

 

[Canadian_Diver]

The gear I clip to my rig comes off during penetrations, and the clean front is clean again......stages left out at the point of entry..........It is not a contradiction.

Well, then we're getting back into the realm of technical diving ... in which I fully support and agree that a BP/W is a necessary.

But that's not what this thread is about, the whole conversation is about how mainstream is the BP/W becoming, and is it necessary for Joe Average to need one.

 

[Canadian_Diver]

Wouldn't happen to have been OMS rigs would it?

I don't see much OMS. That stuff is mainly sold out on the East coast of Canada.

I mostly see DiveRite.