BP/W Overload!

[dive_turkey]

One thing I noticed when I was shopping was that BP/W setups are FAR easier to buy used than a traditional BC.

The ones I looked at were in far better shape; because of the simple design (a steel plate, some webbing/drings, and a bladder), the only real concern I found myself worrying about was the condition of the bladder. And even then, that was easy enough to test. I ended up with a used Halcyon rig with all the hardware in fantastic shape, except for the outer shell, for peanuts. I wrote Halcyon and they sent me a brand new one.

If you're looking to save money, it looks like the low-cost options out there are DiveRite or a used rig if the right deal drops in your lap. That's what I found, anyway. Best of luck with your hunt.

You're absolutely right, much less expensive. Good luck snagging a used Halcyon in this community though. I've been keeping my eye on them to get an idea of market value for used, and those tend to get bought up in the first 10 minutes. From what I'm reading, the backplate and webbing really don't matter at all. The first backplate I see with good webbing and a few accessories tied on at a good price should work. The tricky part is picking out a wing to attach to it.

Am I right to say that most wings will fit onto most backplates? Or are they proprietary (DSS to DSS, Halcyon to Halcyon, etc)?

Also, it would seem that once I have a backplate and webbing all geared up, the only change I need to go from singles to doubles is a different wing, not a whole different setup? There is no such thing as a backplate for doubles or for singles, only the wings are different, correct?

I was thinking about the Halcyon Evolve (a doubles wing), but the problem is that the shop I dive with here in Germany does mostly large fat singles, not doubles. As long as I'm renting tanks, I'll suffer from the "the taco effect" and I'll have 40# of lift when I only need 20-30#... I'm still trying to figure all that out. So, there goes my streamlined nature, as the Evolve (from what I've read) is not recommended for single tank diving at all. So maybe I need something more like the Infinity for now, and then switch to the Evolve when I get to the states?

Also, IF I go with Halcyon, I've read the cinch straps are the way to go for those of us that vary our exposure protection often, from wet, to dry, etc...

*I'm using Halcyon as my example here because there is quite a bit of information available on them. I'm open to other brands once I know I'm understanding all of this correctly.

 

[rhwestfall]

1. wings do not dual-purpose well at all, do not do this! Claims of a wing being good for singles and doubles is hogwash.

2. careful of plate selection. Some will require a STA (single tank adapter) to use for single tank diving. Others have web slots cut in them. There can be volumes of opinions on which is "better". Just know what you need.. a pair of cam bands then attaches the tank to the plate or STA. Doubles bolt directly to the plate. In both cases the wing is sandwiched between.

2a. Look for plates and wings listing the same hole pattern (11" is industry standard - some do not follow it).

3. Some singles wings have integral STA-type items in them (so, you don't need both).

Keep asking questions...

 

[dive_turkey]

Thank you! That was very clarifying.

 

[Golo]

Hm... I could sell you my DR SS BP and just get a new one as I'm moving to the States soon, but as I will continue diving with a SS BP in the future it wouldn't make sense to me to sell if for less than whatever a new SS BP in the states would cost me. It feels kind of wrong to charge the same as a new BP (in the States), but as I said, else it wouldn't make sense to me.

Here is another shop not too far away (Frankfurt), they have xdeep and Halcyon and it seems you can try dive: aquanaut

---------- Post added February 28th, 2014 at 03:22 AM ----------

Have you been to this shop yet? deepstop

Their shop is near Mannheim. Seems a bit expensive, though they do have a 11lbs SS backplate, if you need the weight.

 

[halocline]

I would look into a place called caveadventurers.com. It's a shop specifically focused on cave diving and they have excellent prices on BP/W set ups and they know what they're talking about. You can buy dive rite or oxycheq plates and wings there, those are very good and reasonably priced. I would stay away from the companies that produce recreational gear and have added a few tech-oriented options; those would include scubapro and aqualung.

Another excellent option would be Deep Sea Supply; you buy directly from the manufacturer. It's high quality gear at a reasonable, not bargain-basement, price. Both DSS and caveadventurers ship stuff to Europe frequently, and when you come back to states, service will be more convenient. If you buy a European rig you'll have good service options for this year, but when you move to the U.S. you lose that convenience.

For single tank cold water diving, I would recommend a steel plate, 30-40 lb single tank wing, NOT a supposedly hybrid double/single tank wing, those are terrible for single tanks. Then get a simple hogarthian harness kit. You could buy a STA but it's not necessary and most wings these days are designed to work well with no STA.

 

[dive_turkey]

Hm... I could sell you my DR SS BP and just get a new one as I'm moving to the States soon, but as I will continue diving with a SS BP in the future it wouldn't make sense to me to sell if for less than whatever a new SS BP in the states would cost me. It feels kind of wrong to charge the same as a new BP (in the States), but as I said, else it wouldn't make sense to me.

Here is another shop not too far away (Frankfurt), they have xdeep and Halcyon and it seems you can try dive: aquanaut

---------- Post added February 28th, 2014 at 03:22 AM ----------

Have you been to this shop yet? deepstop

Their shop is near Mannheim. Seems a bit expensive, though they do have a 11lbs SS backplate, if you need the weight.

We go to deepstop all the time! They are very nice and helpful there, but they are expensive...

It would make the lost sense to sell me your tanks if you have some. I can find a backplate.

---------- Post added February 27th, 2014 at 10:25 PM ----------

I would look into a place called caveadventurers.com. It's a shop specifically focused on cave diving and they have excellent prices on BP/W set ups and they know what they're talking about. You can buy dive rite or oxycheq plates and wings there, those are very good and reasonably priced. I would stay away from the companies that produce recreational gear and have added a few tech-oriented options; those would include scubapro and aqualung.

Another excellent option would be Deep Sea Supply; you buy directly from the manufacturer. It's high quality gear at a reasonable, not bargain-basement, price. Both DSS and caveadventurers ship stuff to Europe frequently, and when you come back to states, service will be more convenient. If you buy a European rig you'll have good service options for this year, but when you move to the U.S. you lose that convenience.

For single tank cold water diving, I would recommend a steel plate, 30-40 lb single tank wing, NOT a supposedly hybrid double/single tank wing, those are terrible for single tanks. Then get a simple hogarthian harness kit. You could buy a STA but it's not necessary and most wings these days are designed to work well with no STA.

I think I'm leaning towards a 30# single, and then a 40# upon my return to the states. I will probably order from a .com that ships to APO, unless I can snag a good deal here. Also, I have an avid cave diver friend who seems to be keeping an eye out for stuff that comes through her shop for me. Considering she certified me in my basic 20 years ago, I suppose she has a vested interest in my transition to tech diving.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I just shipped a BPW to Scotland and one to Singapore. Europe is not a big deal at all if you have an APO! That makes it easy and relatively inexpensive, like me shipping to Florida or California inexpensive using an APO and USPS.

 

[dive_turkey]

Just an update so as not to seem ingrateful. Wanted to let everyone here know I greatly appreciate the advice, opinions, and help. I've decided on a HOG SS backplate and 32# wing for single tank diving. Jim is hooking me up with a great deal once the backplates come off backorder.

Once I get back to the states I'll build a doubles rig. Thanks again, SB!

 

[Colliam7]

From what I'm reading, the backplate and webbing really don't matter at all. The first backplate I see with good webbing and a few accessories tied on at a good price should work.

Generally, yes It is probably a stretch to say 'backplate and webbing really don't matter at all' as there are different plate materials available (e.g. stainless steel and aluminum), and modest differences in design, etc. And, I won't say the webbing really doesn't matter. The harness configuration is a matter of individual preference - many prefer using a single, continuous piece of webbing, while others prefer one of the 'deluxe' harnesses. But functionally, plates are far more similar than dissimilar, as are harnesses.

Am I right to say that most wings will fit onto most backplates? Or are they proprietary (DSS to DSS, Halcyon to Halcyon, etc)?

Generally, yes you are right, and the brands you mention are not 'proprietary'. I use Dive Rite, OMS, Apeks, HOG, Halcyon, and Zeagle plates and wings interchangeably.

Also, it would seem that once I have a backplate and webbing all geared up, the only change I need to go from singles to doubles is a different wing, not a whole different setup? There is no such thing as a backplate for doubles or for singles, only the wings are different, correct?

Generally, yes. The wing is the difference, as others have pointed out. For example, I use a stainless steel plate for diving single AL cylinders in a 3mm wetsuit, and for diving double steel cylinders in a drysuit, attaching a 18 (or 30) pound wing for the single cylinder, and a 55 lb wing for the doubles. But, I do use an AL plate when diving double cylinders with a wetsuit - I don't absolutely have to, but I prefer to.

Also, IF I go with Halcyon, I've read the cinch straps are the way to go for those of us that vary our exposure protection often, from wet, to dry, etc...

I have used a rig with the cinch system, although I don't own one. I have to admit, though, I really like it. I was a skeptic at first - 'oh, it is just another gimmick' - but the system seems to do exactly what is is marketed to do.

2a. Look for plates and wings listing the same hole pattern (11" is industry standard - some do not follow it).

I have seen this statement a number of times before and I am curious - are there specific brands of metal backplate that do not follow the 11" O.C. design? I am not disputing the statement at all, just interested in knowing what are the conspicuous exceptions.

I've decided on a HOG SS backplate and 32# wing for single tank diving.

Very good choice.

 

[rhwestfall]

.I have seen this statement a number of times before and I am curious - are there specific brands of metal backplate that do not follow the 11" O.C. design? I am not disputing the statement at all, just interested in knowing what are the conspicuous exceptions.[/COLOR]

a bigger problem I should have said is that cam band slots in conjunction with bolt holes (obviously single tank configurations) do not necessarily work with each other to line up between some manufacturers..... more the problem with the cam bands than the bolt pattern, but its a part of a complete system... some use a STA to resolve the issue, but i personally do not want the tank further away from my COG.