BP/W Overload!

[dive_turkey]

Holy cow. Has anyone else noticed that there only about 4,000 different combinations of backplate, wing, and harness out there?

So, I'm in no rush here, but sometime within the next year I know I'm going to switch from my Zeagle Ranger LTD to a BP/W.

What I'm looking for is the best source of consolidated information I can find (I already have the incredibly complicated spreadsheet, and I'm trying to learn how to use it). Not necessarily brand preferences, but more style and configuration advantages i.e. (or is it e.g.?) donut vs wing, single vs double, aluminum vs steel... I'm alright with a few brand preferences if it's to reference a unique material, design, or unparalleled quality or versatility.

Lately, I've been diving dry with steel tanks in very cold fresh water (see my avatar for an idea of how cold). I'm wearing about 27 lbs of lead on a mako belt (12lbs) and the rest in my ranger, with about 2lbs of trim weight up as close to my shoulders as possible. All but that last two pounds can be ditched, but I can also swim the entire rig up from 30ft with an empty wing and empty drysuit.

I'll require a somewhat versatile configuration, as I'd like to avoid eventually owning several. I suppose I would consider a max of two different sets if I absolutely had to. The idea is to reduce and simplify the overall amount of equipment I own. After all, I'm running out of room just like the rest of you!

 

[Agility]

for cold water with steel tank(s) a steel BP seems the way to go. The wing size will depend on your tank configuration e.g. for me a doughnut 40# wing for steel 8.5l or 12l doubles, but using the same wing for a single tank will produce unnecessary drag.
I own a Hollis Ride for flying

 

[rongoodman]

It's not rocket surgery. A SS plate, OPH, and a 30-40# wing for singles wing now, with a doubles wing later when you need it.

 

[scububa]

Well, you'll hear this from others, but it's hard to say without more indications of what kind of diving you intend to do...just like I have boxes and boxes of tools, I don't pick one until I decide what I am going to do.

Wet suit vs. Dry suit; deeper diving vs. shallow; deco vs. NDL; temps, etc.

Heck, I bet someone even suggests you consider a side mount rig :-o

For me, in back mount, doing a trimix dive in Lake Huron to 200 ft., I benefit from a steel back plate. I prefer a donut wing. I use a simple hogarthian harness with a d-ring on the shoulder straps and left hip. I have a tow ring on my crotch strap and a rear stow ring for swimming the scooter if required. I wear my stages and deco on the left side and I use a tank leash at times.

 

[Diver0001]

What brands are common in your area? If I were you I would make a short list based upon what you can source and get serviced locally. Around here I mostly see people diving with Apeks, Diverite and Scubapro wings. My experience, having dived with different ones, is that it hardly makes any difference provided it's the right size and shape for the tanks you're using.

As for the plate... well... Assuming you're a normal sized person then I'm going to say it's completely irrelevant which one you choose provided the the holes are all in the right place. The material it's made from (steel or aluminium) is important but not whose sticker is on it.

You're going to have trouble transitioning your weight, though. You have 6 or 8 kilograms of weight in ditchable pockets, which you won't have on a continuous harness. You can add them but they're a PITA and I personally find them uncomfortable. You might be better off, if you're going to transition to a BP/W, to also think about your tanks. Depending on your needs, a 300bar 12L tank or 300bar twin-7's will give you a lot of additional weight up back and allow you to do away with that 6kg. What I did is transition to twin 200bar 12L tanks and even with a drysuit on I only need 4kg of weight in total. I also like the twin 12's for the balance, but that's somewhat personal.

Hope that helps

R..

 

[dive_turkey]

Primarily recreational dealers around here. There is one technical shop in Mannheim that sells mostly Halcyon, but shopping there is ridiculously expensive. The more complicated part is that while I'm living here now, I'll be permanently returning to the states next year and am not sure what to expect in the way of tanks. I suppose if I went ahead and bought my own tanks here, that would simplify things... maybe. Is there much difference between the US and European markets in tank availability and configuration?
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Just heard from a friend of mine with a little knowledge on the subject. She recommends NOT buying my own tanks if I plan to return to the states due to the difference in hydro and vip requirements.

So, I'm looking for a BP/W that I can use here in Europe, but then permanently set up when I return to the states.

 

[rhwestfall]

you might run into troubles getting tanks filled or a hydro in the US of a "non-US" tank....

If costs are so bad there, wait a year, and go big when you get home to stay....

 

[Diver0001]

Primarily recreational dealers around here. There is one technical shop in Mannheim that sells mostly Halcyon, but shopping there is ridiculously expensive. The more complicated part is that while I'm living here now, I'll be permanently returning to the states next year and am not sure what to expect in the way of tanks. I suppose if I went ahead and bought my own tanks here, that would simplify things... maybe. Is there much difference between the US and European markets in tank availability and configuration?

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Just heard from a friend of mine with a little knowledge on the subject. She recommends NOT buying my own tanks if I plan to return to the states due to the difference in hydro and vip requirements.

So, I'm looking for a BP/W that I can use here in Europe, but then permanently set up when I return to the states.

I hear that Halcyon wings are ok but I wouldn't buy one in Europe because you pay such a premium for the import. Everything American is ridiculously overpriced here because of import duties. Halcyon wings were somewhat popular 10 years ago despite the absurd price because some people thought if they buy it they'll be "real" DIR divers. Now that the mainstream A-players are in the tek market there is absolutely no reason to throw your money away on Halcyon.

If you're moving to the US then you might be best off with the Apeks or Scubapro wing. They're big in the US as well so getting it serviced under warranty over there should be possible. If you want to know for sure you'll have to mail the manufacturer and ask them about their international warranty policies. If it's not under warranty in the US then wait until you move back to buy it. You'll be able to buy the same wing but it will be under warranty. Don't gamble on this. When I moved to the Netherlands from Canada I ended up replacing *all* of my gear because getting it serviced was such a PITA. I had an American made computer that needed fixing and it took months of waiting, including 6 weeks of fighting with customs over it, because the manufacturer replaced the computer instead of fixing the one I sent them and customs said it was "new" and was subject to import duties and taxes.

This is such a pain in the ass that you *absolutely* do *not* want to buy anything new in Europe and then export it unless the manufacturer tells you on no uncertain terms that it will be serviced under warranty in the United States if it comes down to it.

Tanks are a big problem. Even though European steel tanks are better across the board than what you can get in the US (better buoyancy characteristics), if you bring European tanks to the states, you'll end up cutting them in 1/2 and making flower pots out of them. You're basically stuck with buying the American ones which are much heavier--much more negative--than they need to be. I think their regulations require it.

American Aluminium tanks, on the other hand, are quite good for their buoyancy characteristics. You can buy American made aluminium tanks in Europe but they have different stamps on them because of EU rules and there's a good chance that even though they're the same tanks, you still won't be able to get them filled.

In other words. Wait until you move to buy tanks.

R..

 

[Bopper]

you might run into troubles getting tanks filled or a hydro in the US of a "non-US" tank....

True. I bought a tank made in Europe in the US and the most knowledgeable shop in San Diego wouldn't hydro it since it didn't have the Dept Of Transportation stamp on it.

Regarding the BP/W, one of the great things about this setup is how generic it can be. Configurability comes after you've purchased the 'core' items: backplate, webbing, wing, and tank straps (and maybe an STA). At least that's been my experience. (One thing I'd make sure of is that the backplate has as many 'holes' as possible. Every once in a while you'll see one w/o the holes in the centerline. I don't know why that is though; I think it might be an older style)

 

[TSandM]

About the only times when a steel plate won't work for a single tank diver are when the diver is wearing no exposure protection at all, or very minimal exposure protection and using steel tanks. The rest of the time, almost everybody needs at least 5 lbs of ballast. So I'd buy a steel plate. Plates DO differ, in the quality of the stainless, the shape of the bend, the existence and placement of camband slots (if the plate doesn't have them, you will need an STA), and the existence and number of holes along the edge to attach things. They also differ in the finish work -- some plates will need inspection and deburring, if you don't want to replace the harness often.

Wing size for a single tank can vary from tiny (I use a 17 lb wing in the tropics) to moderate (I think about the most anybody would ever need with singles is 40 lb). Something in the 30 - 35 lb range will work for most situations -- some overkill for very warm water, but it works, and enough for cold water diving safely.

Doughnut versus horseshoe is hotly debated. Tobin George has some very convincing arguments why the bottom connection of the doughnut wing really doesn't do anything in most positions. I've dived both and cannot tell any difference. And shape isn't terribly important in single tank diving, where you can move the tank up and down in the cambands to help balance.

There is very little to service on a wing. If you get the kind that uses the generic inflators, you can service them or replace them for about what it costs to have someone else service them.