The idea behind the thread is that a Backplate and wing setup is a cool tool that can be used for diving. There are numerous cool tools out there. I like my BP/W for a big chunk of the diving I do, but it doesn't replace my Zeagle setup for warm water. Could I use the BP/W in warm water? Sure.
Divedoggie, ....The tool for the job concept does not work for me on this, because I have used vest BC's, Atpacks, horsecollars, no bc at all, pretty much every major style of BC, in thousands of dives, and I can categorically state that my Halcyon bp/wing ( either the 17 pound wing or the 27 pound lift wing) is superior in all coditions to any of the BC's that I have ever tried, in any and all conditions.
Point 1 ...
Comfort always SHOULD be higher for a bp/wing, because if the harness is "sized" and set up properly, the resulting fit on the diver is as if the entire system was MADE just for them...this is not a MASS MARKETED "average" body shape for large, or medium or small...this is absolute individualized fit.....the difference is often dramatic. However, this flexibility comes with a cost--the diver must be sized and fit properly. It is not hard to get close, just reading internet articles on fitting a harness to a diver....but to achieve the perfect fit, particularly for a person who has never worn one before ( with no past experience with a PERFECT FIT) it is improbable that they could achieve this --and they would
not know that they had not attained a perfect fit, because in all liklihood, even a mediocre job of fitting the harness will be superior to the fit of a mass marketed BC on an individual without the body shape of the manufactured large, medium or small.
Point 2.
Forgetting the extreme comfort possible in the showroom with a properly fitted Harness and BP....the idea is that you are buying something that will be perfection underwater.
Underwater, the "surface comfort" of a typical vest bc or zeagle, or whatever mass market bc , comes at a price----the surface comfort, due to looseness and the way they just "hang" or sit on the diver gently, becomes a liability -- without the gravity on land, and with bouyancy effects underwater, the typical mass market bc starts to move around, and can not possibly support the tank in the same manner the bp/wing can.....you want the bp/wing to make the scuba tank seem as is it is actually a part of your body, like a real apendage, just like it is part of your back. There should be zero instability with the tank and bc system, but with typical vest bc's, when you move suddenly, there is play in the system, and ther tank will move separate from you--it will not allow you to feel as if it was part of your body.
If you were a freediver as well as a scuba diver, this concept would be big for you...a freediver glides through the water with far more control than most divers could ever imagine, partly because of the lower mass , but also partly because they have perfect trim. This is lost badly with most bc systems.
Point 3.
Perfect trim does not change from the cold water dive sites, to the tropical sites. You may care less about it on a dive at Grand Cayman, but I see no reason to push a "tool" that is harder to achieve perfect trim with, that will allow the tank to move around while diving, and will cause more drag due to it's shape and volume. A diver should always desire perfect trim and as little drag as possible....In a perfect world, a diver would feel like a neutrally bouyant freediver, that magically had air to breathe when underwater.
Many of my students read Scubaboard. As new divers with no experience with backplates and wings and very little experience with jacket style BCs. They read the threads in which BP/W proponents push the product pretty hard. Mind control? No. Confusing to new divers? Possibly. Most recreational divers will never even see a BP/W setup, but if you got all your info from Scubaboard threads you would think nearly everyone dives with BP/W.
In south Florida, you see plenty of bp/wings on charter boats....where do you dive?
Its heavy and its not as comfortable or as convenient. My Ranger fits like a glove, has streamlined excellent storage pockets, and ditchable weight pockets. How many of your customers get to trade back and forth to compare? On Wednesdays I teach 2 classes in a row. The first one in the Ranger/Brigade, the second one in the BP with 30 lb donut wing. I can't help it, but I like the Ranger better!
If the students or you are switching between a bp/wing that is not fitted PERFECTLY for them, they have COMPLETELY missed the point of using a system that has been INDIVIDUALIZED just for them--that fits perfectly. When they /you switch to a mass market bc, that is supposed to create a quick mediocre fit for most people, easily, SURE, this could seem like like the ranger is more comfortable..but the problem is mis-use of the bp/wing.
A SS BP with an AL 80 is too much weight for many people in 3mm suits or shorts and rash guards, and would make them negatively buoyant.
Which is why there are aluminum backplates for this.....
They also would need training in diving with a balanced rig. Most people's training involves using ditchable weights. That can be overcome with a rigid plate made of aluminum or composite, but then they would need to add some weight pockets, which brings me back to just owning a BC that has it all built in.
First, all new divers need training in attaining proper trim. Most need help on getting their weight needs balanced properly for this.
If the student was set up from inception as being neutral at the surface with a near empty tank, then they should not have a huge need for ditchable weight---assuming they are neutral for all practical purposes, the idea is to swim to the surface, and swim on the surface, not to be using an elevator for up and down, or to be unfit to be able to swim without a raft attached to the body. ...and a small amount of weight can be placed on a weight belt, if the whole ditchable idea is big for them....Part of the instructor's job is creating the composite between ther exposure suit issues and the bc or bp/wing solutions.
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My BP/W is not as comfortable, its heavier and unforgiving. I like both, but in warm water I like a my Ranger better.
As we discussed earlier, it would be very cool to have an expert like Tobin, or someone like Jarrod Jablonski set you up to what they considered to be perfection, and then hear your take on all of this
REgards,
DanV
