BP/W: I officially don't get it

[divechk]

bp/wings don't just magically give you good buoyancy and trim

they do make it easier for you to achieve it

but you still have to do the work to get there

I second this.

 

[piikki]

In all that time i have never seen somebody being pushed face down using a plate and wing combo unless hugely over weight or the rig is poorly adjusted ( but my scubapro night hawk that i started with did this to me all the time) .

So if somebody really thinks that a jacket bc is superior to a bp/w in anyway maybe. should maybe pick up a book and learn to set up the plate properly or should pic up another sport like golf .

BTW pick up the book dressed for success by Dan mackay. There is a hole section on how to fit a backplate

Your comments come across a little jerkish. Maybe you haven’t seen anyone pushed on their face because they haven’t actually gone that far. I do not get pushed face into water but I am not comfortable on surface, as in, I float low and feel unbalanced, and if I do not fight back a bit some I might tip/lean.

I, for example, have had the Mackay book from beginning. DIR divers sure aren’t immune to this problem. I have met more than dozen doubles divers that say that it is not comfortable to float on surface in doubles for any longer time. All these have been divers I consider experienced and skilled, several DIR. And FYI, one of the quoted divers in this group was GUE instructor. Surprise you? Maybe there is something that some people compromise for in water comfort or maybe just some people feel more discomfort in some positions because of other factors. I don’t know.

What are you wearing for exposure protection? Heavy neoprene might make your legs floaty.

And what lift wing are you using? It almost sounds as though you might not have enough lift for the gear you're carrying.

I dive double 85s at home, but I have to admit I carry a LOT more weight than you do. I use an Al plate, 6 lb v-weight (don't ask), and 16 pound weight belt. I think the belt helps me balance at the surface, to some degree.

I wear TLS350 and most of the time either 4th Element Arctic or DC Extreme undies. No extra neoprene. The wing is the bigger Vertex, 55lbs so sure should have more than enough lift when I have only doubles. I just can’t get into comfortable ‘riding’ position on surface. I figured on longer waits/drift dives I bypass the problem, blow the bigger SMB and use it as a tube under my arms once I get to surface

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I have been watching this thread for a wile this is my two cents .

So if somebody really thinks that a jacket bc is superior to a bp/w in anyway maybe. should maybe pick up a book and learn to set up the plate properly or should pic up another sport like golf .

Yeah yeah that's it. Anyone who expresses a preference that diverges from your own should simply read a DIR book or take up golf.

Maybe you should have just kept lurking

 

[Gombessa]

I dive double 85s at home, but I have to admit I carry a LOT more weight than you do. I use an Al plate, 6 lb v-weight (don't ask), and 16 pound weight belt. I think the belt helps me balance at the surface, to some degree.

Lynne, it surprises me that we have very similar weighting (just cause I know mine is fairly atypical). I also use an AL plate, a 6lb tail weight, with a 10lb weight belt. You have a vest in addition to your MK3s right? That probably accounts for the additional 6lb. I think these Whites undergarments must be especially lofty.

 

[adurso]

If anyone has any doubts about the magic of a BP/W they should find Jepuskar's video on the subject....

The insistance of others about what someone else may find comfortable is always interesting.

Diving is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby; if someone is comfortable in a jacket, or a horse collar, or in nothing, who cares?

There are circumstances that may contibute to the comfort of one type over another.

I must hang up my Golem Gear plate and wing after several years due to multiple shoulder surgeries, I cannot articulate my shoulders to don comfortably so must get a BC with nice wide padded shoulders.....

 

[CompuDude]

I must hang up my Golem Gear plate and wing after several years due to multiple shoulder surgeries, I cannot articulate my shoulders to don comfortably so must get a BC with nice wide padded shoulders.....

If you're happy with your Golem plate and wing, why just just get a harness with quick releases, either by adding them to your own or picking up something like a DiveRite TransPlate harness?

 

[adurso]

If you're happy with your Golem plate and wing, why just just get a harness with quick releases, either by adding them to your own or picking up something like a DiveRite TransPlate harness?

Will not work; without going into a great deal of detail my ac joints float free and each collar bone had the last inch or so resected leaving what should be attached free floating. Harness straps fall right over the area where the collarbone is not. Quite painful.

I was able to get by when only one shoulder was like that, two is just plain painful.

Believe me, I tried everything I could think of or was suggested..

On the other hand my daughter is happy with her "new" wing....

EDIT Looking at the Transplate that might be an option if I can find one inexpensively enough, thanks for the suggestion

 

[peterbj7]

I have been watching this thread for a wile this is my two cents .


I have been diving both jacket bc's with weight belts and intergraded weights both regular jackets and back inflates .All i can really say is they suck i have to say they never fit rite there either too small or to big . the weight pockets are never big enoph for cold water diving so your always forced to were a weight belt that drags your fins down for bad position in the water. And once you go tech jacket bc's are just horrible (other than the diverite trans pack ).

I have close to a 1000 dives in all conditions .950 of those are in bp/w or in a transpack (nomad sidemount rig ) . simple streamlined no useless dohickies . In all that time i have never seen somebody being pushed face down using a plate and wing combo unless hugely over weight or the rig is poorly adjusted ( but my scubapro night hawk that i started with did this to me all the time) .

So if somebody really thinks that a jacket bc is superior to a bp/w in anyway maybe. should maybe pick up a book and learn to set up the plate properly or should pic up another sport like golf .


BTW pick up the book dressed for success by Dan mackay. There is a hole section on how to fit a backplate
Its sold at Welcome | Global Underwater Explorers

Several points. It is (commonly regarded as) good practice to carry some weight on-board and some in a separate weight system. Perhaps one third to each side and the other system. That way if you need to dump some weight you can do that without going into orbit.

Many people use a variety of dive gear depending on the circumstances. I use every configuration that has been discussed here at some point or other, and do NOT find the problems you seem to have with jacket BCs. Maybe you should take your own advice and read a book or take up another sport - or just watch what other people do and copy them.

You certainly sound remarkably experienced, so if in your entire diving career you have NEVER seen anyone pushed face down unless they were manifestly doing something wrong your view must clearly count for a lot. There are however other people who have similar experience to you, or may I presumptively suggest even more, who have not had this rosy view on life and have indeed seen people less than comfortable at the surface with a wing.

You refer to people being "hugely overweight". I wonder how you determine that? It's usually not difficult to spot in warm water diving, but how do you tell that someone was badly overweighted in cold water? Perhaps you assume that if they were experiencing face-down problems at the surface then they must have been overweight?

Incidentally, may I yet again try to separate the two items and functions of a backplate and a wing. The problem being discussed has nothing to do with backplates, which if SS may actually help ameliorate the problem as they push the carried weight as far back as possible, but everything to do with wings. People experience it with eg. a Transpac and a wing at least as much as with a backplate and a wing.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Several points. It is (commonly regarded as) good practice to carry some weight on-board and some in a separate weight system. Perhaps one third to each side and the other system. That way if you need to dump some weight you can do that without going into orbit.

Blanket statements like this regarding weighting are a disservice to new divers.

In warm water it's quite possible the divers regulator and cylinder are all the ballast required, yet your comment leads them to believe they also need a weight belt.

Far better for the diver to understand **why** certain gear choices are made, and exactly what contingencies these choices are meant to address.

Tobin

 

[bill22]

Don't know why there always seems to be a crowd that insist that you're an idiot if you don't dive a bp/w. If someone wants to wear a bcj, then that's there choice. Why insult them? They're happy, why give them a hard time? They have their reasons, which make sense to them and isn't that all that matters?

Just because I dive a bp/w doesn't mean I feel I have the right to tell someone else what they should or shouldn't wear.

Can't we all just get along