bp/w harness type and time of use

[DevonDiver]

With a big chest and shoulders, the straps cut circulation off to my arms *to the point where my arms actually get sluggish and lose flexibility*, and with the straps tightened to where they're snug, I can't get in and out, which for me is a bigger safety concern than having a "failure point" with a quick release.

I am not sure I understand your point?

You had a single-piece harness, that was so tight that it cut off circulation to your arms? Why didn't you just loosen it? How did adding a 'quick release' solve the issue of your harness being too tight?

I've had a nasty experience due to a 'tight harness'. My buddy on a technical dive got DCI because he over-tightened his comfort harness. His bend was attributable to reduced circulation causing nitrogen retention in his arms. Back on the boat, he removed his harness and the bend hit immediately (extensive torso skin rash, 'chokes', leg pain and diminishing consiousness).

This is one of the reasons why I don't like comfort harnesses... because it is too easy to over-tighten them. This is especially true with doubles, or if divers have a long walk to the water. It is tempting to cinch those straps down, like it was a backpack or a parachute.

With a properly adjusted single-piece harness, the straps should feel loose and there should be no impact on arm circulation once underwater.

 

[tomboyy]

I am not sure I understand your point?

You had a single-piece harness, that was so tight that it cut off circulation to your arms? Why didn't you just loosen it? How did adding a 'quick release' solve the issue of your harness being too tight?

I've had a nasty experience due to a 'tight harness'. My buddy on a technical dive got DCI because he over-tightened his comfort harness. His bend was attributable to reduced circulation causing nitrogen retention in his arms. Back on the boat, he removed his harness and the bend hit immediately (extensive torso skin rash, 'chokes', leg pain and diminishing consiousness).

This is one of the reasons why I don't like comfort harnesses... because it is too easy to over-tighten them. This is especially true with doubles, or if divers have a long walk to the water. It is tempting to cinch those straps down, like it was a backpack or a parachute.

With a properly adjusted single-piece harness, the straps should feel loose and there should be no impact on arm circulation once underwater.

The hog rig is simply not going to work for everybody

 

[DevonDiver]

The hog rig is simply not going to work for everybody

Can you quantify that sweeping statement?

 

[Scott]

When I originally bought the DR deluxe harness for my tech endevors I was fearfull that I made a mistake. During one class I was able to try the Apex WTX and a DR Trans Plate, I knew I made the right choice afterwards.
If I was diving in warm water with little exposure protection I may have liked a comfort harness but with a 3mm or my dry suit there was to much padding for me.
I didn't care much for the chest strap on my DR and removed it after the first few dives.

 

[Hepcat62]

With a properly adjusted single-piece harness, the straps should feel loose and there should be no impact on arm circulation once underwater.

The hog rig is simply not going to work for everybody

I'm not sure why you highlighted the bit you did, because that's the bit that flies most directly in the face of what you said...

The benefit of a one-piece harness is that it CAN be properly adjusted to really fit just about anybody. A comfort harness that's too loose is just as bad as a single-piece harness that's too tight. You can flip those around and it works too. No matter how you slice it, gear that doesn't fit properly isn't going to work well.

That's why I like the one-piece harness - if I take the 20 minutes to size it up right, then it fits me perfectly, every time I put it on. It certainly fits me much better than any stock-sizes type adjustable harness ever has.

 

[tbone1004]

It feels fine in the water. I'm talking about walking around on land. When I have to use them now it's when we're teaching, and unfortunately that usually involves a lot of walking around. Where the shoulder strap lie because my chest is significantly larger than my waist, 52" and 36", it pinches the artery.

If I didn't have to walk around on land, I'd use one, but there's just too much land stuff that I can't get deal with. If you look at the Transplate and Transpacs, the shoulder strap ties into the waist strap, not the backplate. I keep mine around where my hip bone is. This allows the straps more wiggle room when you're getting in and out. They're still about the same length, but because they're pulled farther forward on the waist, then pulled together at the chest they are just as snug. Less chicken winging. I know this is going to sound lame, but I can't touch my elbows together, nor can I touch my left finger tips to my left shoulder and vice versa *makes valve drills a party, let me tell you* but it makes getting into and out of a properly fitted HOG harness damn near impossible.

RE. your buddy that got bent. If you look at the videos on DiveRite and if you've done any backpacking, you'll know that the last thing you tighten down on a harness/backpack like that is the shoulder straps. You put the chest strap on first and make sure they are straight, then do the waist belt, then just snug the shoulder straps. This provides the best and safest fit for surface transport. Once in the water, all harnesses should feel relatively similar and somewhat loose fitting.

My transplate isn't for the shoulder straps. It doesn't have them on there. It's because the shoulder straps tie into the waist belt wherever I attach them instead of at the plate, just to clarify. It's certainly not because it's more comfortable due to padding

 

[DevonDiver]

It feels fine in the water. I'm talking about walking around on land.

This is certainly a consideration. In the UK, I dived with twin steel 12l cylinders. Add an umbilical torch and stage cylinder to the mix....and a 400m walk from car-park to the water was no joke!

Personally, I think the answer to kit carrying issues doesn't lie in changing configurations. My solution in the UK was to buy a small fold-up trolley and I dragged my kit along bungeed to that

Where the shoulder strap lie because my chest is significantly larger than my waist, 52" and 36", it pinches the artery. I know this is going to sound lame, but I can't touch my elbows together, nor can I touch my left finger tips to my left shoulder and vice versa *makes valve drills a party, let me tell you* but it makes getting into and out of a properly fitted HOG harness damn near impossible.

From your physical description, then it certainly sounds as though a lot of consideration must have gone into good work-around solutions.

RE. your buddy that got bent. If you look at the videos on DiveRite and if you've done any backpacking, you'll know that the last thing you tighten down on a harness/backpack like that is the shoulder straps. You put the chest strap on first and make sure they are straight, then do the waist belt, then just snug the shoulder straps. This provides the best and safest fit for surface transport. Once in the water, all harnesses should feel relatively similar and somewhat loose fitting.

That example was pretty radical...as the harness wasn't drammatically tight - but just sufficiently so to make a difference over 2 hours of decompression hanging from a deco trapeze in moderate current.

It was a real-life example though...and something that illustrated to me a safety concern with adjustable harnesses on backplates.

 

[tomboyy]

Can you quantify that sweeping statement?

Its not a sweeping statement. Like I said in my earlier post It wasn't for me..I adjusted my hog exacty like they said but I didn't like it on shore... I think if the webbing was a softer material it may have worked ok.

 

[tomboyy]

I'm not sure why you highlighted the bit you did, because that's the bit that flies most directly in the face of what you said...

The benefit of a one-piece harness is that it CAN be properly adjusted to really fit just about anybody. A comfort harness that's too loose is just as bad as a single-piece harness that's too tight. You can flip those around and it works too. No matter how you slice it, gear that doesn't fit properly isn't going to work well.

That's why I like the one-piece harness - if I take the 20 minutes to size it up right, then it fits me perfectly, every time I put it on. It certainly fits me much better than any stock-sizes type adjustable harness ever has.

Just about... not all

 

[DevonDiver]

Tom.... it's a single piece of webbing. You can make it as long, or as short as you like. You can make the waistbelt xxx cm long and the shoulder straps xxx cm long. You can move the d-rings from position A to position B, or even position D.

It is literally, infinitely adjustable

I didn't get any advice when I first moved to BP&W, other than watching an instructional video (DIR) and searching the internet. I thought I understood how it was meant to fit. It seemed easy. It actually took me several hundred dives to really establish the perfect fit and configuration. It was worth it...and I am glad I didn't give up and opt for a complex harness... but I do wish someone had given me better advice early on

If your concern was that the webbing was too stiff on your new BP&W, there are 4 options:

1) Wait for the webbing to loosen over several dives. It does soften quickly and tends to 'mold' to fit you.

2) Replace the webbing, with a softer alternative. Time 20mins. Cost $15.

3) Add neoprene sleeves to the shoulder area of the harness. Time 10 mins. Cost $20.

4) Replace the entire harness with an expensive 'comfort harness' Time 30 mins. Cost $150+