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BP/W banned in DM Course

Discussion in 'Thinking of a Diving Career?' started by randytay, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Canonsburg, Pa
    I had the same interpretation in my DM course. The instructor never let us demo skills. Course that could have been his ego...

    When I crossed over it was a whole new ballgame and a lot more fun! Didn't feel like a shlep, but like an actual part of the instructional team. Not being able to demo skills, give short lectures, and do any kind of real instruction is why I nearly quit the whole pro route altogether. Meeting up with my YMCA IT is a big reason I got back into it.
  2. ScubabunnyCR

    ScubabunnyCR Course Director

    I think it is useful to use the same rig as students for confined water sessions, as they are getting used to basic scuba gear. It provides less confusion on their part. Once in open water though, they are more familiar with their set-up and I don't feel its a problem to have you use your BP/W -long hose set-up. As mentioned above it provides them with an insight into other equipment config. When teaching Divemaster classes, I have no problem with DMCs wearing whatever set-up they choose, however, the couple that I have had in the past that were using long hose configuration chose to swap out for the reasons explained above (not so confusing!). The BP/W is never so much of an issue.
  3. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board Staff Member

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    Or ignorance. There is a lot of apocryphal information about what any particular agency will or will not tolerate/support. I was a dive master for two instructors in a single class (there was a DMC as well). Same agency, but one would encourage me to demo skills and the other went berserk at the mere thought. I gravitated towards the one and let the DMC deal with the other.

    I must say that at the time, I was pretty disillusioned with the amount of ego/protectionism I encountered in the industry at that time. My instructor had moved to California and no shop wanted to adopt me without me re-taking a lot of classes from them. But you're right Jim. It's best to be a part of a team. We all look out for each other and help each other remember what's important.
    jar546 likes this.
  4. DBailey

    DBailey Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives:
    Location: Wrigley Field, Chicago
    I lump a lot of the ignorance into the category of "I learned this way; therefore, I teach this way".

    Also, I blame some of the agencies for the lack of information that led to this train of thought. For example, in the PADI skills, the DM material refers to "technical attributes" that need to be hit on, but the attributes are never listed or discussed. It is like taking a test where there is a different answer key for the same questions.
  5. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
    Best instructor I ever DM'ed for (a PADI instructor, BTW) used to have his DM's demonstrating all the skills. I learned a lot from that guy ...

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
  6. belairbrian

    belairbrian Divemaster

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: South East USA
    I might as well throw my TOTALLY Personal views into this.

    1st I am a DMC and I dive a Black Diamond with Air2. During Pool sessions I have a regulator with the Air2 hose AND a yellow octo so I can demonstrate when needed.

    We had another DMC (who apparently is dropping out) he uses a BP/W.

    When setting up gear we explain the differences and it becomes a non-issue.

    I guess I view the Instructor DMC relationship this way. I am an intern or more accurately an apprentice since I'm not paying for the training but working free for it.

    I also spent over 20 years in the military, and as a SNCO we had many heated staff meetings where OICs and NCOs had very differing opinions. At the end the boss makes the call and you present a unified front to the troops. I apply the same philosophy to DM.
    odblnt likes this.
  7. 616fun

    616fun Divemaster

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Indianapolis, IN
    I really don't see a need for 'technical attributes' mandated in a class for recreational assistants. Any instructor capable of providing are surely welcome, but to mandate a DM, which will assist with recreational classes, must be taught technical attributes of diving doesn't make sense.

    That said, there is nothing technical about a BP/Wing. It's gear. The utilization of that gear defines its use. If the DM is competent in it's use then it's an addition to the class. They get to see another option in the BCD market.
  8. Belce

    Belce Divemaster

    # of Dives:
    Location: Victoria, BC
    We are doing something we really enjoy and helping other people find that enjoyment that we have found. Doing so we need to recognize that enjoyment experience can vary from one person to the next. Showing as much about this sport as possible is a good thing, having each member of the instruction team able to show the range of possiblitlies is great. Imagine the experience learning and seeing open circuit recreational, open circuit technical and rebreather diving during your open water training.

    When training a new diver success is not them earning an open water certification, success is seeing them dive next year.
  9. Hawkwood

    Hawkwood MSDT ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: None - Not Certified
    Location: NA
    I like that. Thanks.
  10. MurkyRockDiver

    MurkyRockDiver Instructor, Scuba

    I don't see the big deal. I would let you use it as long as you could demo the skills properly in the rig. When you think about the skills required in OW classes they can all be done in a BP/W or Vest.

    Not much sense having the divers certified and giving them a mindset only one gear config will work.

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