BP/W and emergencies

[matt_unique]

Hey everyone!

Yeah, I know..... "Just what we need..... another bp/w thread....... " There seem to be lots of opinions on bp/w, most of them favorable. As a new diver who is just starting to buy gear, I have no opinion either way from an experience standpoint. But I do have a question: What's the consensus regarding advantages/disadvantages of bp/w in cases of emergencies? My understanding is that the thing is quite heavy, in some cases eliminating the need for a weight belt. In a situation where you need maximum buoyancy on the surface, where you would normally be able to quickly drop a weight belt or BC-integrated weights, isn't a bp/w more of a danger? And how does the system work on the surface in general? Does it try to pitch the diver over one way or another? Also, in regard to air volume, how do the wings compare to a jacket-style BC, again with emergencies in mind? I'm someone who will happily chuck comfort in the name of safety, so I'm wondering how a bp/w stacks up in this regard. I've heard lots in the way of function in normal situations, but not much about safety up top. Opinions? Experiences?

Thanks!

Joel

BP/W are less complicated in terms of design than many BC's. The weight of the BP itself is not a big deal as pointed out above. The real difference in weight is relevant when you are diving doubles. With the correct BP/W you can dive it with singles also. If I had it to do again, I would have started with a BP/W suitable for a single tank. Should you decide to dive doubles in the future you need to purchase another wing but that's it.

I use the Dive Rite Deluxe harness which includes a QR and chest strap. The only way it will break will be if it is hit. There are lots of debates about the virtue of QR. I say if your harness is hit such that the QR breaks you better check your computer and regulators for damage as well. With a chest strap, crotch strap, and waist strap you can barely tell when the QR is disconnected until everything is released and you are exiting your gear. It makes exiting your gear much easier.

With a BP/W setup you don't have to worry about tank slippage common with BC's. The tanks are held in place with SS bands then bolted to the BP/W.

I use weight pouches. The weight is held verticle (if you were standing). They do not release as easily as my BC weight. I need two hands to release one weight pouch. With two hands it is easy but two hands nonetheless.

I have not experienced any unusual surface floatation characteristics. I am usually finning on my back when on the surface. When floating verticle I do not feel a push forward.

--Matt

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, I don't doubt that you have, but QRs make the job simpler, and I have never ever seen one fail in the water.

I've never seen one fail in the water either. It isn't even that big of a deal if it does. If you use a harness with QR's in some IANTD classes you are required to show that you can dive with one open. I've done it and in fact have tried it with both open back when I was diving in Zeagles.

My biggest gripe against QR's is the constraints they put on the rest of the configuration...that's where my backup lights go and there's a reason they go there rather than in a pocket or someplace.

 

[fdog]

If I'm diving deco-obligated, I use redundant equipment...doubles, regs, everything. This is all on a BP/W.

Generally weight ditch isn't a smart way to stay alive with an emergency when overhead restricted, so I rely on redundancy and the team for resolution of a problem. So, the difficulties of weight jettison aren't really applicable for me.

All the best, James

 

[bcsean]

I'm very clear with people I dive with. If there is an emergency, my emt shears are on my waist. Take them out and cut my straps. I can easily replace webbing.

As for weight, if you're dialed in to begin with, you should be nearly neutral and it shouldn't be hard to do a rescue with you. I still wear 10lbs on my weight belt, as I'm on a singles setup, so that's a non issue as well. I just make sure that the people I dive with, if in traditional gear understand how my setup works before we get in.

 

[ocpaul]

Hey everyone!

My understanding is that the thing is quite heavy, in some cases eliminating the need for a weight belt. In a situation where you need maximum buoyancy on the surface, where you would normally be able to quickly drop a weight belt or BC-integrated weights, isn't a bp/w more of a danger?

A SS BP is usually about 6#. If you only need 6# weight, you might consider an AL or Plastic BP with some ditchable weight either on a belt, a separate harness or pockets integrated into the BP/W setup.

And how does the system work on the surface in general? Does it try to pitch the diver over one way or another?

I have found it very easy to back float on the surface with my rig. I have placed some trim weights on my tank straps and I do use the Halcyon ACBs for the balance of my weights.

Also, in regard to air volume, how do the wings compare to a jacket-style BC, again with emergencies in mind?

You can get wings in all types of lift capacities, so you should be able to match a wing to your particular diving circumstances without too much problem.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

My biggest gripe against QR's is the constraints they put on the rest of the configuration...that's where my backup lights go and there's a reason they go there rather than in a pocket or someplace.

I have not had that particular problem as the QR is above the left shoulder D-ring and the backup light rides nicely on the D-ring/strap underneath.

I have had an issue with shoulder pads on the straps interfering with the QR. If the left shoulder pad is not wrapped tight enouigh around the strap, it can slide over the the QR and defeat the purpose of having one.

 

[HakoFugu]

Thanks for all the great info, everyone. Lots of good viewpoints. It's appreciated.

Joel

 

[Sideband]

If I'm diving deco-obligated, I use redundant equipment...doubles, regs, everything. This is all on a BP/W.

Generally weight ditch isn't a smart way to stay alive with an emergency when overhead restricted, so I rely on redundancy and the team for resolution of a problem. So, the difficulties of weight jettison aren't really applicable for me.

All the best, James

I don't want to be the 'know it all noob' but it has been hammered into my head over and over that most accidents happen at the surface. If that is true, then the surface is also a very probable place to need to ditch weight in an emergency. It may be you needing to ditch to stay at the surface for some reason, or worst case, someone else needing to ditch your weight to keep you at the surface. IMO this makes weight ditching applicable to every diver.

I very much agree about ditching at depth with any kind of restriction generally being a bad thing but would like your opinion on my thoughts of surface ditching. I realize you may very well also have weight that makes this possible. I am only addressing your post above.

Joe

 

[rcohn]

My comments on face-up floatation from a few weeks ago

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=629249&postcount=3

Ralph

 

[fdog]

...that most accidents happen at the surface. If that is true, then the surface is also a very probable place to need to ditch weight in an emergency. It may be you needing to ditch to stay at the surface for some reason, or worst case, someone else needing to ditch your weight to keep you at the surface. IMO this makes weight ditching applicable to every diver.

I very much agree about ditching at depth with any kind of restriction generally being a bad thing but would like your opinion on my thoughts of surface ditching...
Joe

Joe, I concur with what you say about the surface; I believe the quote that sticks with me is that "weight jettison is an excellent way to stay at the surface" (paraphrased).

In my mind, I am very clear about my mode of diving: recreational or deco-obligated, and no mixes of the two. Recreational is all NDL, the surface is a viable emergency management option, and weight ditch is another tool to get (or stay) there.

Deco-obligated is a mode where the surface can kill you. So I dive with redundant everything: gas (doubles), regulators, bags, and dual bladders in the wing. So if redundant will keep me alive at the bottom, it certainly will at the surface, which in this mode is actually a "foreign place" to me.

I guess for me, my mental mindset is that I'm underwater until I get into the boat.

Of course, it is possible to postulate a very unlikely set of circumstances that would make it impossible to stay at the surface; double bladder failure, followed by double bag failure. Not to mention that I am weighted to be neutral at the surface with empty tanks. Failing all this, weight ditch is certainly something that can be done, after digging it out from under the crotch strap, but it is way down my mental checklist of bouyancy problem resolution.

I know some who dive with no weight belts, and they, too would jettison weight in such a dire set of events: get out of the BP/W and let it go.

Anyway. Hope that explains my post better. It works for me...might not for others.

All the best, James