Bluewater Ascents

[allenw1972]

Having accomplished GUE certification only up to a the Fundies level, I am looking for some thoughts on practicing blue water ascents. Not necessarily thoughts on how to perform a blue water ascent, but the when, where and whys of doing a blue water ascent during non-training dives. In discussing this with one buddy last weekend, we went over shooting a bag and how this would help to stabilize the ascent profile under a deco (or nodeco) obligation. One of our past non-GUE instructors really had issues with bluewater ascents due to the likelihood of an uncontrolled ascent and the increased risks associated. Can the rick be mitigated with practice completely, or should one consider ascending in blue water as a last resort?

Keep in mind that we are not talking about ascents in 100' vis, but ascents in vis between 2' and 20' which seems to complicate things substantially.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[rjack321]

Bottom line, just keep doing them until the bouyancy is a non-issue. We are doing midwater ascents in 3ft vis from 150+ft depths with deco obligations without issue out here in Seattle. All the time, no incidents due to lost bouyancy. You need work up to it though. But botching an ascent from 40ft on 32% is not going to hurt you (assuming you exhale). The SMB is helpful, but you should be 95+% stable without that, just you, your gauge and your buddies.

If you can't do a mid-water ascent, you need to account for that in your rock bottom estimates. And if you end up doing much boat diving, you'll be seriously hindered by weak mid-water skills. There are thousands and thousands of dives in the Great Lakes, Bahamas, FL, Monterery, and PNW where there's no other way home. You need to have this skill wired (at varying degrees of proficiency depending on the deco situation).

Really there's one and only one reason to lose control on an ascent and its an upwelling. At those sites where upwellings are a problem: 1) try to avoid a mid-water ascent or 2) try to come up a wall or anchor line that you can reach out and partially stabilize yourself. The number of dive sites with upwellings is very small and can be evaluated through research and experience before making committing dives.

To repeat, just keep doing them until the midwater bouyancy is a non-issue. Do them on practice dives and do them for real at progessively more difficult recreational sites before layering on the deco obligation.

 

[AndyNZ]

IMHO, the SMB is only there as a visual reference - both for the surface support and for you.

Practice is the key. Watch your gauge (and/or your team).

Biggest concern in these ascents to my mind is current, which you may or may not be aware of - long deco obligations in blue water without an SMB could take you a long way from your surface support.

 

[allenw1972]

IMHO, the SMB is only there as a visual reference - both for the surface support and for you.

Practice is the key. Watch your gauge (and/or your team).

Biggest concern in these ascents to my mind is current, which you may or may not be aware of - long deco obligations in blue water without an SMB could take you a long way from your surface support.

Thanks for the response. I understand that the SMB is only for visual reference, but some reference helps sometimes. Would there be a reason not to shoot and just rely on blue water skill?

Our team has actually been working on blue water ascents and we have thrown in other skills with the surface and bottom no where in sight. These skills are going quite well considering our lack of experience.

In Tech 1, Tech 2, etc, how much of the training requires blue water work? I didn't see anything in the standards, but may have missed it. If so, what are the skills and standards?

 

[Sloth]

Like Rjack mentioned sometimes viz is so bad that its black water ascents instead of blue water...well not here in Hawaii but you get the point I would think that being able to safely ascend with no visual reference is an important skill regardless of training agency.

I would go further to say that you shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you have a mandatory deco obligation if you cant safely do a zero reference ascent.

 

[Rick Inman]

Can the rick be mitigated with practice...

Humm... interesting typo.

 

[TSandM]

There is no reason not to shoot a bag, and to do a blue water ascent without reference. In both Fundies and Rec Triox, I was taught that ANY time you have to ascend off the upline, you are to shoot a bag.

 

[Sloth]

There is no reason not to shoot a bag, and to do a blue water ascent without reference. In both Fundies and Rec Triox, I was taught that ANY time you have to ascend off the upline, you are to shoot a bag.

Only scenario I could think of where you might not shoot a bag is deco while scootering. "blue water" ascent comfort isn't that important then because you are on the trigger but deco switches would require someone to be ok with zero reference buoyancy.

So yeah shoot a bag if you aren't on an upline. It shouldn't be used as a crutch though. If someone always has to relay on some sort of reference during deco to maintain buoyancy and ascent rate then they might run into some issues if they ever had to deco without a mask.

On a side note, is moving a mask less teammate during deco covered in tech 1?

 

[edparris]

On a side note, is moving a mask less teammate during deco covered in tech 1?

Yeah you'll end up doing no reference ascents with valve failures and a maskless OOG buddy while keeping on the deco schedule in Tech-1.

 

[dsteding]

Only scenario I could think of where you might not shoot a bag is deco while scootering. "blue water" ascent comfort isn't that important then because you are on the trigger but deco switches would require someone to be ok with zero reference buoyancy.

I honestly don't think you'd be scootering in such a situation. If you've scootered out to something you are probably coming home on the bottom contour, if you used the scooter on the bottom you are coming up an upline and have the scooter clipped off. Even with good scooter skills, zipping along in mid-water with no depth reference will equal reasonable depth variations, not so good for deco.

So yeah shoot a bag if you aren't on an upline. It shouldn't be used as a crutch though. If someone always has to relay on some sort of reference during deco to maintain buoyancy and ascent rate then they might run into some issues if they ever had to deco without a mask.

On a side note, is moving a mask less teammate during deco covered in tech 1?

Not really on the first point, and yes on the second. On the first point, if you are maskless in class it is because you've had your primary and backup masks taken away.

I know, happened to me yesterday.

In that case you aren't truly without a reference, that is what your team is there for. Reality is in a team of three there are three backup masks involved, so if you ever lost your mask there you'd have ample supplies-as long as there wasn't the blue gloves of death hovering above you taking each mask you put on. I agree a bag shouldn't be a "crutch" for buoyancy, but I think your point about being truly reference-less and having to deco just isn't part of reality.

It is part of class-but not to prepare you for that in the real world. Rather, to measure your comfort and problem solving skills underwater.