Blue Hole/Perch Info needed

[RonFrank]

Hi Jason

There is still one thing I don't understand about drysuits though, and never thought to ask- assuming hypothetically I was using the drysuit to control bouyancy rather than the BC, what would I do with the exaust valve? Would I be continually opening and closing it as well as trying to add air? If so, why do people think this is easier to teach a noob than diving with the valve open and using the BC for bouyancy control? It sounds way more complicated and potentially dangerous.

Hi NOOOOOOOB!

Valve's can be pushed to exhaust air. So you would not change your settings (assuming you have found the holy grail of DS settings). Using a DS for buoyancy IMO is a mistake. They exhaust and trap air, it's difficult to tell when you have air in them especially downside, and I can not think of a reason to use a DS for buoyancy other than if your BC is wasted...

Glad you enjoyed the dives.

 

[ABQdiver]

Hi Jason
We had a great weekend, thanks for asking. First I'd like to say that everyone we met connected with NM Scuba Center were brilliant- friendly, helpful and knowledgeable. We also met some friendly divers and locals at the Hole so that set us on a good vibe for the course.

I found bouyancy control tricky, as you might expect. The big thing seems to be that by the time I realised I had a problem (i.e. had got positive or negatively bouyant) it was a bit late and took a lot of correcting. I think that will come with practice. By our third and final dive I was comfortable enough to relax and enjoy the dive and correct my mistakes reasonably quickly. It was a big improvement over the first dive where I spent a while kicking up silt on the bottom- sorry to anyone who got in after me!!!

The big problem I had was leg squeeze. By the time I figured out that I needed to make sure air was getting to my legs, I'd already rubbed my knees raw, which wouldn't be a huge problem except I have an old injury to one of my knees and it got swolen and sore... I don't think this will be an issue next time, experience is a good teacher!

There is still one thing I don't understand about drysuits though, and never thought to ask- assuming hypothetically I was using the drysuit to control bouyancy rather than the BC, what would I do with the exaust valve? Would I be continually opening and closing it as well as trying to add air? If so, why do people think this is easier to teach a noob than diving with the valve open and using the BC for bouyancy control? It sounds way more complicated and potentially dangerous.

Glad to hear that things went well. Mike said you both did well!!

I alway say that drysuit diving takes about 8-10 dive to start feeling like you're not some alien in someone elses skin. It will get better with practice.

The air in the suit is just to take the squeeze off and to loft your undergarments. Not for major buoyancy control. That said, it DOES affect your buoyancy and will need to be accounted for upon ascending. If you leave the exhaust open (or turned back a couple of turns) then the air can escape on ascension with ease and is "almost" automatic. This way, your BC is the major player and the DS takes secondary position in the buoyancy equation. This way your task loading is somewhat reduced from turning the DS exhaust back and forth during the dive as well as maintaining the BC.

just my 2cents......


Another thing that will help with the leg squeeze, is to hold a horizontal position in the water. That way the air is on one plane that affects most of your body.

 

[Jasonmh]

Hi Jason
We had a great weekend, thanks for asking. First I'd like to say that everyone we met connected with NM Scuba Center were brilliant- friendly, helpful and knowledgeable. We also met some friendly divers and locals at the Hole so that set us on a good vibe for the course.

Great, glad you had a good time. It sounds like Mike Barlow was your instructor? Mike is a great guy and great instructor, I took AOW and Rescue from him. He does a great job of pointing out mistakes or deficiencies without making you feel stupid.

It of course does take time and practice to get used to, but (as ABQ diver said) 8-10 more dives really goes a long way to getting you more familiar with the suit.
I hope you can come down again sometime and maybe we can meet you at BH.
Take care,
Jason

 

[noobascooba]

Mike was really nice, he didn't even make fun too much after the lying on the bottom kicking up silt incident, which I was greatful for . Or when I grabbed onto a rock ledge while I sorted out a bouyancy problem.. that was embarrasing!

I kept my exhaust valve either open or ever so slightly closed the whole time, and it worked out fine. My question about using the ds for bouyancy was just born out of curiosity- I figured if you were changing depth you would potentially keep having to adjust the valve to control how much air is retained, and that sounds overly complex to me.

As for the leg squeeze, I found occasionally tipping my head forward slightly let the air move into my legs, and that helped a lot. I figured this was safe to do with a minimal ammount of air in the suit.

I think we will go to BH again. It was a long way but we both enjoyed it. We'd also like to come back to check out Perch- we couldn't go last weekend because my buddy's depth gague failed after our first dive, so going into a new body of water seemed like a really dumb thing to do. I'll keep checking this forum for when people are heading down. I think our next trip will be to Utah though..

It was nice to meet a few of you, and hopefully I'll meet a few more next time!

ns

 

[Divedoggie]

Hi ns,

I think I'm heading down to BH on the 21st and 22nd of April. We will surely dive Perch as well.

The "tipping your head forward" feeling that you had when you pushed air down to your legs, was most likely happening when you got your entire body into a more horizontal position.
Try to maintain that position even without a drysuit. (If you go to Utah or Cayman.)

Its not required that you "Hold that pose" all of the time, but its a streamlined, stable, efficient position to work from. Olympic swimmers move through the water in a streamlined, horizontal position. Divers should, too.

A drysuit diver in a head up position will allow all of the air to flow up to her/his shoulders resulting in leg squeeze, dumping of too much air, and negative buoyancy, quick overcorrections of attempted buoyancy control, and then positive buoyancy and run aways. The drysuit exhaust valve will be constantly manipulated to attempt compensation......

I pretty much keep my valve open all of the time.
An exception might be: If I am going to move into a verticle position for some reason, then I anticipate and close the valve a ways. When I resume a normal horizontal attitude, I open the valve again.

I use the air in the suit to prevent squeeze, and my BC is used for buoyancy if necessary. Many times, the amount of air used to prevent squeeze is sufficient for nuetral buoyancy!

I hope to meet you one of these days!

 

[noobascooba]

I'll be in the UK that weekend. We might dive the weekend after but probably in Utah- we have a friend (Klaus) doing their rescue diver with Alpine I think. I won't be doing it though- I'd like to but it would blow my diving budget!

If you have any reccomendations for Utah other than seabase and the crater they are welcome... Doesn't matter if it's somewhere cold now

Trims a funny thing isn't it? Being horizontal seems to really limit vision, it's like having blinkers on. The nasty head up position seems to give a much better view... It does lead to the constant over correction you are talking about with the bouyancy though- I discovered that during the course!

better go, work is closed now because of a snow storm and I have to go and brave the blizzard!

 

[noobascooba]

http://chrislikesbiscuits.blogspot.com/2007/03/being-shrink-wrapped.html
this is me looking very gimp-like in my new suit.


i think my chest strap is too high looking at this, but I've taken up enough of this thread without starting a discussion about that.

not sure why i posted it... maybe I'm just really bored...

 

[RonFrank]

Trims a funny thing isn't it? Being horizontal seems to really limit vision, it's like having blinkers on. The nasty head up position seems to give a much better view... It does lead to the constant over correction you are talking about with the bouyancy though- I discovered that during the course!

Not sure what type of mask you are using, but I like the Big Eye's style masks. They really increase the view especially top to bottom. I dive a Mares XVision. Kevin does as well (ABQDiver). I don't find the horizontal position limiting, and maybe that is due to the mask.

As for OOOTAH diving, there have been a couple threads posted on the subject. They have a few lakes, but I have not heard of much in the way of wonderful vis. Some of their lakes like Blue Hole, and Rock Lake are hot springs fed, so the water temps are doable even in the colder months. I have no dove Utah, so I can not offer first hand experience.

 

[ABQdiver]

Not sure what type of mask you are using, but I like the Big Eye's style masks. They really increase the view especially top to bottom. I dive a Mares XVision. Kevin does as well (ABQDiver). I don't find the horizontal position limiting, and maybe that is due to the mask.

Ron's right! Nice mask. I also got one of those new Atomics and it's my new favorite!!

I think being horizontal diving is something you get used to, like breathing underwater. It does take awhile to learn the process. Arching your back can give you "buns of steel"



Although, I'm still waiting...............

 

[RonFrank]

Ron's right! Nice mask. I also got one of those new Atomics and it's my new favorite!!

I think being horizontal diving is something you get used to, like breathing underwater. It does take awhile to learn the process. Arching your back can give you "buns of steel"

Although, I'm still waiting...............

Yeah, me and you both brother!

I've been coveting one of those Atomics! Maybe I can talk you into a trade for a dive! Which model did you get? Both styles look cool, but I hear the frameless are really low volume, and offer the best view available in any mask. Our LDS has them both, but I have not made any effort to get in the pool with them especially at about $100 a shot.