Blue Heron Bridge Trolls

[danvolker]

It's my understanding that a flag is required for all snorkeling (at least at BHB). I believe the law requires a flag for all "divers". A "diver" is defined as anyone with a underwater breathing apparatus OR a snorkel that allows the diver to remain submerged or partially submerged in the water.


Florida Dive Flags

However, there is no law that each diver needs to have their own flag...they only need to be within 100 feet of a dive flag.
This is entirely a revenue issue, as the divers stay inside the diving area, and with 30 or 40 dive flags in this area, only the drunken boaters are likely to remain ignorant to the diving going on here.....and for them, it's to bad that the LEO's don't actually care about diver safety--if they did, they would not concentrate on divers at BHB as they do, but they would attempt to educate and ticket boats in the vicinity--which they don't ( at least not in any apparent manner that compares to the frequency we see them harassing divers.

I'll tell you one thing..if there are several dive flags around where I want to dive, there is no way in the world I am towing a dive flag.....I would enjoy beating them in court on this....
As for safety, I believe forcing 60 divers to pull 40 flags in the small confines of the west side of the BHB, could represent near criminally negligent risk to these divers for entanglement hazard from dive lines all over the place, and divers getting tangled up in them--which we have seem often....Sandra even had to rescue a girl a few months back that was in full blown panic from one of these...

 

[Arubandi07]

Had a slight tangle the other week, freediving ... no biggie though, I just calmly freed myself, grabbed the line, swam over and strangled the owner ...

BTW, anyone know whether or not the BHB snorkel/dive area is considered part of the 'navigational channel'? Because if not, the allowed max distance from the flag would increase to 300ft, which would, even on a quiet day, make it pretty much damn near impossible to be 'out of bounds'.

 

[blauvelt]

Had a slight tangle the other week, freediving ... no biggie though, I just calmly freed myself, grabbed the line, swam over and strangled the owner ...

BTW, anyone know whether or not the BHB snorkel/dive area is considered part of the 'navigational channel'? Because if not, the allowed max distance from the flag would increase to 300ft, which would, even on a quiet day, make it pretty much damn near impossible to be 'out of bounds'.

This is a map from force-e website. I wouldn't consider anywhere in the dive zone a navigational channel but LEO's may.

http://cdn.force-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/bhb-map.jpg

 

[Arubandi07]

Thanks, love the map, very helpful!! In re to my question, as boats are prohibited from entering the designated area, I wouldn't either, and I don't believe it's up to the discretion of an individual LEO to determine what constitutes, or is part of a 'navigational channel'. Let me check with my friend Wiki ...

 

[BobW]

The actual wording of the Florida Statute pertaining to dive flags is a bit convoluted and should be easy to argue, if ticketed. It states that "All divers must display a flag..." but in the next section allows for "Groups of divers". The actual requirement is that "All divers must make a reasonable effort to remain within xxx feet of the flag". How is anyone, not in the water with you, able to determine that you didn't make a reasonable effort, given the visibility, current, etc? The xxx is either 100 or 300 depending on whether you are in a Navigation Channel. Given that the Navigation Channel is marked by poles with red and green numbers on them, and even extend in a straight line from the closest to the channel through the bridge, most all of the diving on the West side would fall outside the Navigation Channel and the 300 foot rule would apply. By providing the 100/300 foot distance, they are more or less allowing tying off the flag and diving within the circumscribed circle. It is conceivable that 2 buddies could be up to 600 feet apart, yet each being within 300 feet from the flag.



A scenario could be, I got separated from my buddy due to visibility, current, etc. I made a reasonable effort to find him, following safe diving practices, I surfaced and was still unable to locate our flag. I exited the water, intending to shed my gear and return to the area where we were diving, locate our flag and wait to convey my well being to my buddy when he surfaced to look for me. Being detained by Deputy xxx prevented my accomplishing the last part. That could be considered an obstruction of Safety by the deputy(?).

In this light, almost all of the tickets could be deemed bogus and contested.

Bob W

 

[JahJahwarrior]

No, I'm not saying every diver needs a flag, but in groups when you know it's hard to stay together... I've found that more than 3 if no one has a camera, or more than 2 if both have a camera, tend to be more prone to separation. It's different for a class, where everyone is focused on following an instructor.

Yes, flags can get wrapped around things, but it's not really a reason to panic.

In federal waters drift diving, a flag becomes very cumbersome and dangerous, and that's a different story.

I also think it's a different thing to quietly break the law, versus advocating other people do it, too. I'm not sure there's a way to dive the far side of the bridge, which would require crossing the boat channel, and carry a flag. I know lots of people dive without a flag at BHB, and I don't lose sleep over it.

In short, the fact that the LEO's don't enforce one half of the law is no excuse for us violating our half.

Now, if you want to talk ways to get the LEO's to enforce the boater's half of the law, I'm all for it!

How difficult would it be to install a camera for the weekend? Even if we couldn't automate it, a team of volunteers could scan through images taken every 20 seconds pretty easily, and we could prove roughly how close boats come to flags. Set up a meeting with LEO's and discuss it with them. But if we flagrantly violate our half of the laws, I doubt they'll care at all. Do we have any contacts with LEO in PBC? Do we have anyone with a high quality security camera we could borrow for a weekend? I bet we could put it in the lifeguard shack, and power it with a couple of car batteries. It would be a really fun project!

 

[djtimmy77]

GREAT NEWS!

the Lake Worth Inlet cam is finally back up and running. Great way to get a feel for what the visibility at the BHB is if you are stuck at work during high tide. If the water looks blue and clear during high tide then the vis at BHB will be good. If the water looks murky on the cam at high tide the vis is low.

Lake Worth Inlet Webcam

 

[tekkydiver]

A scenario could be, I got separated from my buddy due to visibility, current, etc. I made a reasonable effort to find him, following safe diving practices, I surfaced and was still unable to locate our flag. I exited the water, intending to shed my gear and return to the area where we were diving, locate our flag and wait to convey my well being to my buddy when he surfaced to look for me. Being detained by Deputy xxx prevented my accomplishing the last part. That could be considered an obstruction of Safety by the deputy(?).

In this light, almost all of the tickets could be deemed bogus and contested.

Bob W

Sounds logical, right? But here is what the FWC and the courts have to say about "Reasonable Effort"

FROM THE FWC:

The statement "reasonable effort" is to allow for exigent circumstances where the diver was not able to be within the 300 feet when surfacing. i.e. emergencies, vessel drags anchor, etc.


I suppose if you search back on the forum you could find other incidents where LEO performed sporatic enforcement at the bridge. I suspect there was some internet venting and then a check was mailed.

FYI, the revenue grab arguement does not fly either. A few tickets every couple of weeks doesn't move the meter as far as operating the Marine unit, let alone impact county finances. My guess, just the cost of patrolling, vessel operation, sending officers to court etc... the county more than likely don't break even. Believe it or not, it is a safety issue. Word gets out and divers pay a bit more attention to the flag laws. When compliance slacks off, LEO returns. The same thing occurs with vessels and no wake zones.

If the county wanted a steady revenue stream from the divers, they would just charge them to park, much like they do the boaters. Don't give them ideas or you could be looking at metered parking.

 

[Arubandi07]

Sounds logical, right? But here is what the FWC and the courts have to say about "Reasonable Effort"

FROM THE FWC:

The statement "reasonable effort" is to allow for exigent circumstances where the diver was not able to be within the 300 feet when surfacing. i.e. emergencies, vessel drags anchor, etc.


I suppose if you search back on the forum you could find other incidents where LEO performed sporatic enforcement at the bridge. I suspect there was some internet venting and then a check was mailed.

FYI, the revenue grab arguement does not fly either. A few tickets every couple of weeks doesn't move the meter as far as operating the Marine unit, let alone impact county finances. My guess, just the cost of patrolling, vessel operation, sending officers to court etc... the county more than likely don't break even. Believe it or not, it is a safety issue. Word gets out and divers pay a bit more attention to the flag laws. When compliance slacks off, LEO returns. The same thing occurs with vessels and no wake zones.

If the county wanted a steady revenue stream from the divers, they would just charge them to park, much like they do the boaters. Don't give them ideas or you could be looking at metered parking.

According to one of the locals I spoke with, the parking fee thing has already been on the table for a while ...

Agree on your point about revenue; if that were the incentive, they'd hit the boaters, as those fines are likely substantially higher than the measly $60 for a flag violation. That said, part of the lack of enforcement against boating violations is probably logistics; much easier to just hang out on the beach and wait ...

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I'd kind of like metered parking. On busy weekend mornings it could help provide parking spots. I know there are carpool options as Dan is always telling us but it's just easier to pay a few bucks to park for 2 hours.

And it would weed out the people who use the parking spots but leave and go off to wherever they go. I've seen people park then walk off down the street, clearly not using the park facilities.