Blowing off Steam

[Gareth J]

One of the major benefits of the increase in 'technical diving' is the significant change of attitude from the "if you can't climb a 6ft ladder in it you shouldn't be diving in it", to the how do we minimise the amount of weight an individual is carrying, and help them.
That can include
- dekitting in the water (especially side slung cylinders)
- the fact that most UK boats now have lifts
- assisting divers to and from the exit when kitted up.
- sitting divers down ASAP after they exit the water.
- sharing the loading and unloading of boats.
- sharing the moving of kit around a boat.

We know that heavy exertion after a dive can induce DCI, we are much more sympathetic to minimising heavy lifting and excessive exercise.

Unfortunately there are A*******s everywhere. They can be both male and female.
The fact that there are, shouldn't stop the rest of us from being polite, helpful, and considerate.

I apologise for so heavily intruding on a thread introduced in the womens perspective thread.

The other point se do need to remember is that 'acceptable' behaviour can change with environment and group.
As an example - most of the diving I do is hardboat diving, which means among other luxuarys, we have a loo (toilet). It is generally accepted, (preferred) practice for men to urinate off the stern of the boat, keeping the toilet 'clean', and less busy ( a practice endorsed by the women in the group). HOWEVER, in harbour, the men also use the Toilet.

Similarly 'horseing around' or 'banter' is generally better saved for close groups and friends, to avoid inadvertent insult and offence.

Ultimately, its about consideration, and safety.

 

[Storker]

I assume you would zip someone up without an invitation right?

Um, no. Heck, no. If I see them struggle I might give them the offer without an invitation, but of course I won't touch them without approval.
"You need any help with that? No? OK, just let me know if you do."

EDIT: Unless it's one of my regular buddies who I've zipped up before, and she just turns her back to me waiting to be zipped up like she usually does.

when someone's helping 'steady' me I don't need two hands on my waist for too much time or a hand lingering on my arse.

Those guys are creeps, plain and simple.

 

[RyanT]

Um, no. Heck, no. If I see them struggle I might give them the offer without an invitation, but of course I won't touch them without approval.
"You need any help with that? No? OK, just let me know if you do."

Exactly, I do the same. The offeree can accept or decline. Gender is irrelevant, let's just treat each other like human beings. Unfortunately (reason the OP posted in the first place), some people just choose not to do this.

 

[Kharon]

Recently, I was walking into the mall and as I went through the door, I saw someone coming behind me. I hesitated a few seconds and continued to hold the door for her as she followed behind me. Once inside (and out of the rain) she began to berate me asking "Do I look like I am not able to get the door for myself? Do you think I am too weak and that I need your help? What do you think would happen if you weren't here, do you think that I would just wait for somebody to get the door for me?"

Some people (note I didn't say women) just have a chip on their shoulder. If I was in a bad mood I might have said "Nope, I was just being courtious, which I wouldn't have done if I'd known you were an a--h--". Most of the time I can bite my tongue (a far better response) but sometimes ...

 

[kelemvor]

It remains alive and well here, and people apparently think nothing of it. As I mentioned upthread, I didn't grow up here, and it was different where I came from.

Here too, I guess. I always hold doors and stuff like that. That's just what you do around here. I've never gotten a rude comment or hairy eyeball in return. It seems odd to me that in some places this wouldn't happen. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you guys are talking about exactly.


Re: helping someone on a boat. I just offer a hand to grab. If they take it, fine. If not, that's cool too. I'd feel weird about grabbing some stranger's waist to help steady them. Heck, even if it was a friend it would seem odd. You just don't do stuff like that. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to feel a firm smack in the face had I done that - or if I found a cop waiting for me at the boat dock.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I generally try to hold the door open for anyone immediately behind me, regardless of gender or age. I think it's more to avoid the appearance of closing (or allowing to close) a door in someone's face than to do a good deed. Automatic doors are the great equalizer. Just keep on walking and pretend not to notice anyone else.

Elevators seem to be different. My observation from years of riding elevators in office environments is that the default rule is first-on, first-off, so that everybody's ride is as equal as possible. However, there appears to be a major exception to that rule for gender. Women of any age are always encouraged to exit first, it seems. Age can be a factor, too, but it gets tricky. And guess what? I silently take offense when a young guy steps aside and says "after you, sir." SIR? Is my father standing behind me? Hmmph. My wife says she hates "ma'am" for the same reason.

Getting back to diving, now that I think about it, when returning to a boat ladder, I always try to let ladies go first if there are a number of divers making their way to the ladder together. It may be my imagination, but I think I have detected some ladies intentionally lagging behind as if to send a message that they don't care for "ladies first."

 

[uncfnp]

I It may be my imagination, but I think I have detected some ladies intentionally lagging behind as if to send a message that they don't care for "ladies first."

It could also be an attempt to avoid a potentially awkward moment when they are unsure the protocol. My “typical” group just does first ready, first board. Recently I dove with a group that included some real old fashion style gentlemen. First time or two that they indicated I should board ahead of them it made me feel a bit like I was cutting line. But I adapted.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It could also be an attempt to avoid a potentially awkward moment when they are unsure the protocol. My “typical” group just does first ready, first board. Recently I dove with a group that included some real old fashion style gentlemen. First time or two that they indicated I should board ahead of them it made me feel a bit like I was cutting line. But I adapted.

It can end up being really awkward in groups who don't know each other. I have found myself hanging among people scattered a few yards away from the ladder, nobody seeming to want to be first.

Wouldn't it be great if we all agreed on the "rules" beforehand.

 

[Gareth J]

Getting back to diving, now that I think about it, when returning to a boat ladder, I always try to let ladies go first if there are a number of divers making their way to the ladder together. It may be my imagination, but I think I have detected some ladies intentionally lagging behind as if to send a message that they don't care for "ladies first."

Ladders (and lifts).
Other than when you have a student, or an inexperienced buddy. The general rule is; first to the ladder; first up.
This is based on safety and practicality.
Being under a ladder on a pitching boat is not a safe place to be, so no dilly dallying, get out ASAP.
It also means the exit point is made vacant as soon as practical for other divers. Minimising congestion.

Exit and entry points are dangerous areas. Keep them clear.
(I still have the dent in my skull from a cylinder (and diver) that landed on me.)

 

[gcarter]

Ladders (and lifts).
Other than when you have a student, or an inexperienced buddy. The general rule is; first to the ladder; first up.
This is based on safety and practicality.
Being under a ladder on a pitching boat is not a safe place to be, so no dilly dallying, get out ASAP.
It also means the exit point is made vacant as soon as practical for other divers. Minimising congestion.

Exit and entry points are dangerous areas. Keep them clear.
(I still have the dent in my skull from a cylinder (and diver) that landed on me.)

I don't know why some of these issues are even questions. I was always taught to be courteous to everyone. Do that and you have equality. Anyone who takes umbrage with being treated equally is the one with the problem, not me. Ladies first is not even on my radar, don't believe in it. Courtesy to everyone.

I do of course make exceptions for age, disability, pregnancy, etc.