Blacktip DPV

[Whitrzac]

It doesn’t work that way. It only works that way if all other things were equal, like efficiency of prop and motor. The prop and motor on the viper and magnus were a 40 year old design for most of their lives. The motor and prop for the Genesis were purposely built for the Genesis. It’s the reason that a 25lb Genesis at ~800watts is faster and runs virtually as long as an XK1 at over 1200watts and over 50lbs.

I mean do you know what the value of having a 65 volt system over a 24 volt system is? Well, me neither, but @JonNellis does

Normally it doesn't, and I would take the opportunity to argue with him, but alas, the blacktip and ss motor(with Bt prop, esc and lithium) are fairly closely matched wh for wh with a slight edge to the BT.
I have about 50 dives(3000-6000ft penetrations) were I was on a converted uv26 with a buddy on a bt/20ah pack. I would burn maybe 10% more wh than he did.
More of a testimate to how inefficient the bt motor really is, lol.

 

[stuartv]

My UWLD charge ports are hot and get wet. Doesn't appear to be a problem.
Completely possible to have it set up with an on-board charger that disconnects the packs (electronically) when it sees power applied. Smart charger won't cook the battery as well. Completely doable.

The worst part is having to make a circuit that disconnects the packs from the blacktip. Adding layers of complexity.

Yes. That is exactly the kind of sophistication I was talking about needing.

The post I replied to kind of implied just making the port and, on the inside, having the port wired directly to the battery pack for charging.

 

[stuartv]

Dont forget that a subsea viper is $5000 and a magnus is 7000
The viper has over 2x the range and mag nearly 4

Basic watt hour calculations
The viper has an 840 wh battery and the magnus 1350

2 high end tool batteries have a combined capacity of 432 wh

Its simple math.

I don't have a dog in this fight. But, I do like math.

From the numbers given, the Viper has slightly LESS than double the range (assuming equal overall efficiency). It would need to have 864 W-Hr to be double.

And the Magnus has 3.13 times the range (well, battery capacity, really) - not "nearly 4" (at least, that isn't "nearly" to ME).

Also, a BT with a 20Ah custom pack would be 720W-Hr, I think, for around $2750 - 3000.

However, the BT will still suck on maximum continuous thrust compared to a Magnus.


More math: The BT with Dewalt 12s has a range of around 3.5 miles (per Dive-X specs). (The 20Ah pack should give 5.8 miles.)

3.13 times 3.5 miles means the Magnus would have a range of about 11 miles, for $7000. Again, assuming the same efficiency as the BT.

The Genesis 3.1 is $8750 and claims 8.7 miles of range. However, I also know that that number has not been updated since the 2.1 and the 3.1 is a more efficient motor.

Regardless, the Magnus looks to get equal or better range for $1750 less money.

 

[Superlyte27]

I don't have a dog in this fight. But, I do like math.

From the numbers given, the Viper has slightly LESS than double the range (assuming equal overall efficiency). It would need to have 864 W-Hr to be double.

And the Magnus has 3.13 times the range (well, battery capacity, really) - not "nearly 4" (at least, that isn't "nearly" to ME).

Also, a BT with a 20Ah custom pack would be 720W-Hr, I think, for around $2750 - 3000.

However, the BT will still suck on maximum continuous thrust compared to a Magnus.


More math: The BT with Dewalt 12s has a range of around 3.5 miles (per Dive-X specs). (The 20Ah pack should give 5.8 miles.)

3.13 times 3.5 miles means the Magnus would have a range of about 11 miles, for $7000. Again, assuming the same efficiency as the BT.

The Genesis 3.1 is $8750 and claims 8.7 miles of range. However, I also know that that number has not been updated since the 2.1 and the 3.1 is a more efficient motor.

Regardless, the Magnus looks to get equal or better range for $1750 less money.

Any Genesis will smoke the magnus anyway you measure it. And I’ll bet a brand new stock 3.1 on a brand new stock magnus any day you want.

 

[grantctobin]

Any Genesis will smoke the magnus anyway you measure it. And I’ll bet a brand new stock 3.1 on a brand new stock magnus any day you want.

Careful, @fullytek might get upset and tell you "it's your last chance"

 

[Superlyte27]

Careful, @fullytek might get upset and tell you "it's your last chance"

Actually, it’s been a while since I looked. The mag is has a much bigger battery, it might beat the small Genesis on range slightly. But certainly not on speed.

 

[Manatee Diver]

More of a testimate to how inefficient the bt motor really is, lol.

I mean it is a half to a third of the price of many other scooters.

I don't know about anyone else but I knew what I was getting a value scooter when I bought my BT. While it is good enough for probably a majority DPV drivers, anyone that says it is as good as modern expedition grade scooters are kidding themselves. Heck if it were, then Dive-Xtras wouldn't be making their own expedition grade scooter.

 

[stuartv]

I mean it is a half to a third of the price of many other scooters.

I don't know about anyone else but I knew what I was getting a value scooter when I bought my BT. While it is good enough for probably a majority DPV drivers, anyone that says it is as good as modern expedition grade scooters are kidding themselves. Heck if it were, then Dive-Xtras wouldn't be making their own expedition grade scooter.

"Expedition grade"?

When I think Expedition grade, I think Genesis 3.2 (17 miles) or Seacraft Ghost 2000 (20 miles).

What does Dive-X make that is "expedition grade"? Does 11 miles qualify as "expedition grade"?

Even if it does, with the issues with PTBs, I'm not sure I would consider any scooter with them to be "expedition grade".

My BT has nearly screwed me several times because of PTB voltage imbalance, and that's only between 2 batteries. If you have 4 of them, does that make it 3 times as likely? Does the CudaX do anything special (i.e. something the BlackTip does not do) to make the scooter keep running even when there is a voltage imbalance?

There is no real Quality Control on the Dewalt PTBs - meaning, QC appropriate for cave DPV use. That kinda rules out "expedition" use, in my mind.

PTBs are convenient and cool for a "recreational" scooter, like a BlackTip. Not appropriate - in MY mind - for a technical scooter.

 

[Whitrzac]

I mean it is a half to a third of the price of many other scooters.

I don't know about anyone else but I knew what I was getting a value scooter when I bought my BT. While it is good enough for probably a majority DPV drivers, anyone that says it is as good as modern expedition grade scooters are kidding themselves. Heck if it were, then Dive-Xtras wouldn't be making their own expedition grade scooter.

Define "expedition grade" me and my buddy have run new line over a mile in on blacktips. (20ah packs)
It's my primary photogramatry scooter for shooting new shipwrecks in 250ft+ in 39* water.

My blacktip is my go to backup scooter. It's been drug behind me for countless dives

Even with all ive done with them I still think it's a cheap pos

 

[Whitrzac]

Actually, it’s been a while since I looked. The mag is has a much bigger battery, it might beat the small Genesis on range slightly. But certainly not on speed.

I wouldn't count on it. They're still using square wave controllers and mako props.