Blacktip DPV

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Capt Jim Wyatt

Hanging at the 10 Foot Stop
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Location
High Springs - Cave Country
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I have a friend who has been pitched to buy a Blacktip DPV. He will use it mainly in the ocean scootering around the Vandenburg since he lives in Key West. He will also want to use it it some cave diving at Ginnie, Little River.

Opinions/Information on this DPV for these applications will be appreciated.
 
The DiveXtras are very good for the price they are. Please just don't expect it to have the durability of a $7000 scooter. Most of the damage I have seen is from shipping or dropping them on the nose cone.

They have proven reliable for the people I have sold them to in Mexico. I would suggest at least buying an annual service kit(4 o-rings).

A vacuum tester is nice if you have to replace the shaft seal. They are expensive, but you could get away with purchasing an extra nose and drilling a hole in it for a valve and vacuum gauge.
 
I got a BlackTip when they very first came out. So, what is now called a BlackTip Travel. Later, I got a Tech tube and have both now. I pretty much only use the Tech tube these days.

I bought 2 brand new Dewalt 12 A-Hr batteries and a 4-bay Dewalt charger for it when I got the scooter. The batteries have only ever been used in my BlackTip, so always at the same time and always charged at the same time. I.e. they have identical usage history. I'll explain why that is relevant in a minute. I'm going to try and start with the good points.

I have never started a day with fully charged 12 A-Hr batteries and run them to exhaustion in one day. For dive days that are 2-tank boat charters, it gives plenty of burn time (if you buy the Dewalt 12s - if you go off-brand or use 9 A-Hr batteries, then that's a different story). Dive-X specs are pretty conservative on run-time with these batteries. They say 123 minutes at cruise speed, but I think it's at least 150 minutes and maybe more.

If you DO end up needing more run-time, Jona Silverstein makes a custom battery pack that is roughly double the capacity of a pair of Dewalt 12s and still (my understanding) allows the scooter to be neutral and trim.

I took my original BT/tube on a 250' dive on the E M Clark. At depth I noticed that the hull was starting to buckle in the middle. It never leaked or quit working. After, I took pictures and sent them to Dive-X. They promptly replaced the tube with a new one. The original tube had 3 reinforcing rings inside. The new Travel tube had 5 reinforcing rings. Were I to take it on another deep dive like that, I think I would have no problems at all. I have since taken it back on the same dive twice, with the Tech tube, with no problems at all.

I think it is a great scooter, very well suited for wreck dives. You don't generally need long burn time on wreck dives. I scooter around the Clark for 1/2 an hour and then scooter around during the drift deco for another 90 minutes and it has plenty of burntime to do all that. And, if it were to crap out during one of those dives, it really would not be a problem at all.

On the other hand, cave use is a bit different. Reliability is of more concern and run-time might also be of more concern.

Which brings me back to those Dewalt 12 A-Hr batteries and power tool batteries in general. The basic problem with them is that the scooter manufacturer has no control over the quality of those batteries. The BT Travel and Tech both use 2 batteries. And, they depend on those batteries having the same or very close voltage at all times. If the batteries develop a voltage imbalance, the scooter will shut off.

Dive-X has no control over the quality of the batteries and Dewalt has no QC specs that require their batteries to always have the same voltage as each other. There is nobody that takes responsibility for ensuring the batteries in your BlackTip (or CudaX, for that matter) will actually work reliably, including in tough conditions, in your scooter.

I have had my BT cut out on me on more than one occasion because I was working it hard and one battery pack dropped more in voltage than the other. The first time it happened, I was on deco, working against the current in the Saint Lawrence River, heading back to where my boat was anchored after diving the Jodrey. My scooter cut out and I was almost blown off the wall and out into the shipping channel. Fortunately, I was able to drop down and catch hold of a rock. After a minute or so, the scooter started working again. Presumably, after the batteries recovered a bit. But then it conked out on me several more times as I tried to get back to the boat. After the first time, though, I was ready for it and grabbed onto something on the wall/bottom and just held on until the scooter recovered and worked again for the next short blast.

So, any cave diver should just be aware of those possibilities. Ginnie and Little River have enough flow that trying to go in with a BlackTip may or may not work. If you get lucky and your batteries are good, then it could be fine. I have no idea if the BlackTip's thrust is enough to really work against the flow there, though. And, if it does crap out, the flow in those is high enough to easily turn around and ride the train out, towing the BlackTip.

The BlackTip is, IIRC, something like 45# of thrust, max. And, they even tell you that it will only run at max for a short time before thermal protection throttles it back to something less. In contrast, the Seacraft Future and Ghost are 75# of thrust. The Genesis is 90. I think the Sub-Gravity Reference RS is also around 75#. I think the Seacraft Go! is around 45 also, but will maintain that continuously.

Like I said, I really do not know how much thrust you need to work against the flow in Ginnie and Little River.

I absolutely would not trust a BlackTip on any cave dive that would require going against any flow to get out.

The BlackTip is the only game in town in the <$3000 department. The Seacraft Go! is just under $4K, I think. If you can even get one. But, if your buddy is going to take it in caves, and not willing to spend for a Genesis or Future, the Go! is probably a better choice. More expensive. But, also better for cave use. Batteries that are actually QC'ed by the scooter manufacturer is something that should not be undervalued!
 
@stuartv great information, thank you.

Since I posted this question I have talked to two local High Springs NSS-CDS cave instructors who have experience with these DPVs in caves, specifically Ginnie and Little River. They both told me that these scooters work fine and had nothing bad to say about them. One thing said by one of them was they are not well balanced out of the box and some effort is needed to balance them. The other said that there was no issue with being balanced.
 
The BlackTip is, IIRC, something like 45# of thrust, max. And, they even tell you that it will only run at max for a short time
FWIW, it's the max continuous thrust that is about 45lb. (The short-lived boost mode (~7 mins?) is 57 lb.) I'd rather have the Go, but I'd certainly use the BT if it landed in my lap.
 
I guess the High End Genesis DPV is US $12,000.00.
 
I guess the High End Genesis DPV is US $12,000.00.

The one that will work for 99.99% of cave divers is $8750. 93lbs of thrust and can make it to EOL at Manatee and back with 37% battery remaining. I also have a used one I would sell for $7400 and has only 3 or 4 charging cycles on it. One of those was after a EOL manatee dive.
 
@stuartv great information, thank you.

Since I posted this question I have talked to two local High Springs NSS-CDS cave instructors who have experience with these DPVs in caves, specifically Ginnie and Little River. They both told me that these scooters work fine and had nothing bad to say about them. One thing said by one of them was they are not well balanced out of the box and some effort is needed to balance them. The other said that there was no issue with being balanced.

That is good to know - that they have enough thrust to be useful against the flow in Ginnie and LR.

With my tech tube, I spent an hour in the pool figuring out how much weight it needed to be neutral. I put it all in the nose and (with 2 x Dewalt 12's), it is neutral and stays in trim.

It came with a pre-made salt water trim plate. Now that it's neutral in fresh water, I just put the saltwater plate inside and it's neutral in the ocean. The plate has slots in the sides and there's a pair of thumbscrews inside the tube to hold the saltwater plate. It did take me a couple of dives in the ocean to figure out which slot in the trim plate to use in order for the scooter to stay in perfect trim when I let go of it in salt water.

I guess the High End Genesis DPV is US $12,000.00.

I have a Genesis 2.2, basically brand new - one 20 minute dive (and brand new batteries with one charge cycle) on it - for sale in the Classifieds. Looking for $7300. It is the same battery capacity (and thrust) as the current model (the 3.2). I could be persuaded to deliver it to cave country.

If I sell it, it's to buy a new 3.1. I have no real need for 17 miles of range and no desire to hump a 50# scooter around. A 2.1 or 3.1, with 8+ mile range will do what I want it for.


A BlackTip Tech (with Dewalt 12's) is spec'ed at 3 miles range (at 150 fpm). It has 432 W-Hr of battery and a not-super efficient motor.

A Genesis 2.1 or 3.1 is spec'ed at 8.7 miles (at 150fpm). It has 850 W-Hr of battery and an efficient motor.

A Genesis 2.2 or 3.2 is 17 miles. It has 1700 W-Hr of battery and the same motor as the 2.1/3.1.

So, yeah, the top Genesis is almost $12K. But, does your friend need that much range? If he does - or just wants it - my 2.2 may be just the deal he's looking for... :)
 
They're a cheap dpv, half the cost of anything else comparable. They have their issues, but generally work for most people. If you dive with people who all have $7k scooters, you're in for a bad time, they will leave you in their wake.
I probably have 100+hrs on mine by now. I'm one of the 3 people that like the travel tube, it is short enough for me to carry in one hand. I went back to it recently after using the tech tube for most of my dives.
Max depth I've had it is 317ft IIRC, plenty of dives in the 250+ range.

TBH If you dont need the air travel ability of the dewalts, go with a 20ah pack from the get go. Way more capacity and around the same price IIRC.

Max sustained speed is gear 5. 6 runs for about 20-25min before the esc overheats.
Expect to spend the first day trimming it out again. The tube compresses enough that you're going to want to be able to take it to your normal dive depth to check.
 
Dont forget that a subsea viper is $5000 and a magnus is 7000
The viper has over 2x the range and mag nearly 4
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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