Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[DevonDiver]

I'd suggest it does. The name "loss leader" implies a "loss". If there is no loss why would you call it that?

A dictionary defines it as: "A loss leader is an item that is sold at such a low price that it makes a loss in the hope that customers will be attracted by it and buy other goods at the same shop." COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary.

I don't know mate. I suggest your 1 minute Google search doesn't stack up against a level of understanding that formal academic study in retail and business management might provide.

At this time, i get the feeling you just want to argue for the sake of arguing... so I'm out before i lose respect for you.

 

[HantsDiver]

So you're saying that the dive pros on KT are stupid to accept such salaries?

No - quite the opposite. I'm saying that they don't earn the terrible "third world condition" salaries you are trying to claim they do.

You seem to champion how things work on Koh Tao, but that's the second time you've called dive pros "stupid" for tolerating the employment and pay conditions there... LOL

Again - you are saying "I've seen x,y or z". I'm saying no one with a functioning brain would behave like that. So no I'm not saying all dive professionals are stupid. I'm saying the majority are being presented in a grossly distorted manner be your.

I'd just like to point out - it's you who claims they are high on drugs, hungover and terrible at their job.

But you're saying you would earn a nice salary on Koh Tao...?

Nice selective quoting. When I respond to you I don't cut parts out of a paragraph. Salary was one of the elements I mentioned.

But I'll repeat. In the UK I earn more - and my standard of living is higher. There is no doubt about that. But it doesn't mean I'd be destitute and broke if I was working in Thailand.

Basically you've said "if you won't compete by price cutting/matching, then you deserve to go bust".

What you "think" is irrelevant, because it's not what I said.

Ditto. Because I never said they should cut their prices. I simply said that economies of scale can lead to lower prices and a more successful business.

You either don't understand what a price-quality dynamic is... or you just don't understand what quality diving is.

You do champion Koh Tao... which gives a clue which though... but most likely, it's both.

I certainly don't understand it. I've never heard of it. However, I'm not championing Koh Tao - I'm expressing an alternative viewpoint.

It's a contemporary trend nowadays to dismiss facts or alternative opinions as "hate speak".

I've always viewed that recourse as a type of intellectual surrender.

That's... interesting. If I slated an organization the amount you do. I wouldn't associate myself with them. My principles wouldn't allow me to do so. Why can't you just be honest and say you don't like PADI but you are financially better off by being a member?

I don't know mate. I suggest your 1 minute Google search doesn't stack up against a level of understanding that formal academic study in retail and business management might provide.

Formal academic study... Are you having a laugh? If something is called a loss-leader and doesn't make a loss it's ridiculous. When the "loss leaders" are actually normal retail prices, just lower than yours then this is the case even more so. And it was you who told me to google this topic.

At this time, i get the feeling you just want to argue for the sake of arguing... so I'm out before i lose respect for you.

Andy I'm sure you a fine diving instructor. But you keep making statements - and when I give examples of how they are wrong you start insulting people. You try and misquote me, and when it comes to it make assumptions about my diving. And now you are giving up. I'm sure you have better stuff to do, so fair enough. Let's leave it there.

 

[tursiops]

@DevonDiver
How do you argue that PADI defends the model of dive shops selling equipment? After all, they allow independent instructors, somewhat unusual among agencies.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

By my count independent instructors are the norm. But, I may be wrong. What agencies do not allow independent instructors?

 

[KevinNM]

By my count independent instructors are the norm. But, I may be wrong. What agencies do not allow independent instructors?

SSI doesn't, so I've been told.

 

[tursiops]

SSI doesn't, so I've been told.

SDI/TDI doesn't.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I just knew of SSI and SDI. That leaves PADI, NAUI, IDEA, and PDIC in the RSTC alone. SEI, NASE, RAID, PSAI, IANTD, ANDI, GUE, UTD, TDI, etc., allow independents.

 

[runsongas]

Second, instructors need to somehow unionize and collectively demand higher pay.

I think there should be a higher value placed on the training we get at home. It’s harder, it takes more time, there’s more gear to deal with, there are harsher conditions to deal with, there’s more logistics and travel to deal with. Plus this is California, we expect things to cost more when it comes to someone’s time in services, but not necessarily in gear, because although we pay more for a lot of stuff we’re not stupid either.

I could also see a future where air fills go up to a price that would actually be worth it for the dive shops. You can’t get fills online.

I don't see a union working because the barrier to entry is too low compared to skilled trades like electricians and the ship has sailed, hit a reef, and sunk to the bottom of the ocean already on quality control of new owsi by the industry.

increasing the cost of ow locally to something like 600 to 800 would just increase the amount of people that choose to get certified on vacation instead. not a sure fire way to increase revenue, but probably would decrease class sizes and improve the training standards of ow classes.

what may be more interesting would be a subscription model. eg 50 to 100 dollars a month gets you equipment rentals and fills. gives the shop a steady income stream and encourages more local diving.

 

[Bob DBF]

I don't see a union working because the barrier to entry is too low compared to skilled trades like electricians and the ship has sailed, hit a reef, and sunk to the bottom of the ocean already on quality control of new owsi by the industry.

What drives the trades and their union are state licenses. Once the government is involved, the level of cost, required training, and scrutiny starts weeding out the hobbists.

increasing the cost of ow locally to something like 600 to 800 would just increase the amount of people that choose to get certified on vacation instead.

I once checked the inflation corrected price of my OW course and found that it could now cover most of OW, AOW, and Rescue. On the other hand, that OW course was designed to train divers to dive the north coast of CA with their buddy as soon as the class was over.

Although there will be vacation divers, I believe that giving the prospective diver an understanding of what local diving is and becoming a good diver takes, the cost may not be as big an issue. People like @Jim Lapenta can go from here because my preference and temperament never allowed me to be a "dive proffessional".


Bob

 

[Trace Malinowski]

By "preference," Bob means intelligence quotient.