Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[taimen]

what may be more interesting would be a subscription model. eg 50 to 100 dollars a month gets you equipment rentals and fills. gives the shop a steady income stream and encourages more local diving.

This would probably work. Almost every other past time activity business is using some sort of subsription model now.

 

[Aloha Joe]

I noticed Oahu has dive clubs - pay a yearly dues and get discounted gas, trips, etc. It sounds good to me - I get a deal, and it motivates me to stay loyal to a shop (or two).

One of the shops here has 'free lessons' with purchase of full gear. I thought it would be cool if they had 'get certified with us, apply cost towards full set of gear' - which means I could get my OW cert with rental or used gear and figure out what I like before spending so much money on gear.

Based on the 3 shops I visit here and 1 or 2 I visited on Oahu: have some kind of selection (not huge, not tiny), back up retail pricing with service and respect, and do something that creates a feeling of community - clubs, trips, etc. The shop that has the best selection and lowest prices - the owner makes me feel like a POS every time I go there, so I don't want to go back. On the other hand, a shop in Oahu treated me like gold and I actually was going to pay retail cost and have them ship a BC to mainland because I appreciated their service when I was visiting. They thought I was nuts, lol, but at least I'll join their club when I move there next month.

 

[Edward3c]

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Id suggest that if someone can't work out a 5/6 day course is going to offer more training than a 3 days course then they should be ticking yes on the medical form. The reality is that customers know - they just don't care.
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As PADI make money from the sale of manuals, it’s in their interests to have business with staff that turn over more manual sales. A 3 day course is ⅔ more profitable for PADI than a 5 day course.

 

[DevonDiver]

By my count independent instructors are the norm. But, I may be wrong. What agencies do not allow independent instructors?

Quite a few... but I've found there's typically a standard workaround.

That workaround is usually that independent instructors associate and operate (i.e. process students certs) via a regional/remote HQ or office.

I've seen that system run by TDI/SDI, ANDI, SSI, RAID amongst others.

 

[HantsDiver]

As PADI make money from the sale of manuals, it’s in their interests to have business with staff that turn over more manual sales. A 3 day course is ⅔ more profitable for PADI than a 5 day course.

That makes the assumption that your courses are running at capacity, and that there are no other instructors. For it to be true you either need a lack of instructors so you are turning customers away, or so many customers that you can't service them all. That's not usual in my experience.

Assuming the 3 day course is cheaper and this leads to more custom then it's true that PADI would prefer it. But there margin is no different on the 3 or 5 day course.

 

[runsongas]

Although there will be vacation divers, I believe that giving the prospective diver an understanding of what local diving is and becoming a good diver takes, the cost may not be as big an issue.

Bob

the vacation divers are what provide the numbers to support the industry as it is these days. saying that we should have more expensive and thorough training will only decrease the number of new divers being certified and hasten the end of the industry. it will be back to sewing your own wetsuits out of sheets of neoprene in a garage with the other members of your dive club. like it or not, the industry has become so large that it needs a certain number of divers out there to support the shops and companies involved, especially new divers buying gear and taking classes. the seasoned diver with 20+ years experience that is still diving his conshelf xiv or mk5 and hasn't taken a class since the cold war isn't going to keep the lights on at the LDS. otherwise, you basically have to accept there are going to be quite a few LDS that will go the way of the dodo bird as diving contracts in numbers. there will still be divers, just fewer every year.

 

[Edward3c]

That makes the assumption that your courses are running at capacity, and that there are no other instructors. For it to be true you either need a lack of instructors so you are turning customers away, or so many customers that you can't service them all. That's not usual in my experience.

Assuming the 3 day course is cheaper and this leads to more custom then it's true that PADI would prefer it. But there margin is no different on the 3 or 5 day course.

The money PADI make per manual is the same whether a course is £1 of £500, it’s the business that carries the difference- whether profit or loss.

 

[DevonDiver]

As PADI make money from the sale of manuals...

To be fair, I'm under the impression that's how most non-charitable dive training agencies derive a profit.

I'd assume that sales of materials and certifications would usually be a far bigger revenue source than member subscriptions (dive pro and dive business).

The exceptions being club-based organizations like BSAC or CMAS.

Even then, not-for-profit agencies still need to expand or maintain their operations. They have an interest in promoting more training, more membership, more active divers etc.

The revenue not-for-profit organizations raise just pays operating overheads, with surplus being reinvested for expansion, improvements and special projects.

With for-profit 'business' agencies an amount of profit will always go into paying stockholder dividends or swelling private bank accounts.

I think every agency has an interest in swelling membership, what differs is the method or means by which they're prepared to attain that...and the motives that drive them.

In plain speak, it's about how low they're willing to stoop in order to maximise revenue...and how much leverage they can apply in the market to effect that ambition.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Quite a few... but I've found there's typically a standard workaround.

That workaround is usually that independent instructors associate and operate (i.e. process students certs) via a regional/remote HQ or office.

I've seen that system run by TDI/SDI, ANDI, SSI, RAID amongst others.

TDI you can be indie. I didn't know ANDI made you affiliate. I realized I was mistaken about RAID when you posted.

 

[HantsDiver]

The money PADI make per manual is the same whether a course is £1 of £500, it’s the business that carries the difference- whether profit or loss.

Yes - the business is entirely responsible for charging as much or as little as they want. PADI have absolutely no rules on what you can/should charge.