Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[HantsDiver]

Including BSAC instructors, whom aren’t in the commercial market, is misleading.

Not when the assertion is that you have to pay a lot of money to get good training.

If you equate price with quality, then bsac would be exclusively terrible. That clearly is not the case.

Furthermore - I'm not saying all professionals should work for nothing. That isn't my argument. I'm pointing out that the current model's aren't 'fatally flawed' in the way that blog/article portrayed.

Now I've got nothing against anyone. And if the good instructors want to earn more money then I wish them the best. However, if they are going to tell people that unless they pay more money they will get a terrible service I'm going to point out its rubbish. I know some terrible instructors who are expensive. And I some great ones who work for next to nothing.

 

[Edward3c]

Not when the assertion is that you have to pay a lot of money to get good training.

If you equate price with quality, then bsac would be exclusively terrible. That clearly is not the case.

Furthermore - I'm not saying all professionals should work for nothing. That isn't my argument. I'm pointing out that the current model's aren't 'fatally flawed' in the way that blog/article portrayed.

Now I've got nothing against anyone. And if the good instructors want to earn more money then I wish them the best. However, if they are going to tell people that unless they pay more money they will get a terrible service I'm going to point out its rubbish. I know some terrible instructors who are expensive. And I some great ones who work for next to nothing.

BSAC’s training model isn’t based on price. BSAC instructors teach other BSAC members to dive, then go diving with them as buddies. They don’t teach some stranger to dive and never see them again. Hence, to include BSAC in a commercial setting is, I believe, misleading.

 

[HantsDiver]

BSAC’s training model isn’t based on price. BSAC instructors teach other BSAC members to dive, then go diving with them as buddies. They don’t teach some stranger to dive and never see them again. Hence, to include BSAC in a commercial setting is, I believe, misleading.

But BSAC courses can be taught commercially... Indeed many instructors do simply teach people to dive and never see them again: BSAC Diver Training Programme offered by rectotec

And there is nothing stopping someone joining a club, learning to dive - and then saying goodbye. I get that BSAC is a lot more than just a training organization. However, this was about the assertion that you must pay a lot to get decent training and the point I'm making is that isn't the case.

 

[dmaziuk]

I have total faith in all governments to so screw up the economy that it might indeed be viable.

In my "old country" they set the taxes so high you can either pay taxes or eat. As a result 50-80% of all income is undeclared "black" cash and the average annual income of $1000 means exactly squat.

 

[drrich2]

I'm pointing out that the current model's aren't 'fatally flawed' in the way that blog/article portrayed.

If I understood Andy's article correctly, it's like the old shaving implement approach to turning a profit (a loss leader approach), 'give away the razor, make your money on the blades.'

But the Internet made it easy for customers to buy their blades elsewhere much cheaper. That sabotaged the profit mechanism. But now the public thinks razors are supposed to be cheap, and as long as some people are basically giving them away, transitioning to an expensive razor business model could be hard.

Richard.

 

[mdb]

If I understood Andy's article correctly, it's like the old shaving implement approach to turning a profit (a loss leader approach), 'give away the razor, make your money on the blades.'

But the Internet made it easy for customers to buy their blades elsewhere much cheaper. That sabotaged the profit mechanism. But now the public thinks razors are supposed to be cheap, and as long as some people are basically giving them away, transitioning to an expensive razor business model could be hard.

Richard.

Some companies-Harry's razors, being one, take the sell direct model.
www.harrys.com

High quality razor with high quality blades, sold direct, no Safeway or Kroger, CVS etc.

Seems to be working for them.

I only shave every 3-5 days, I have new blades shipped every three months. It has
been way cheaper for me.

I'm sure a lot of companies, in all industries, are moving to the go direct sales model.

 

[HantsDiver]

If I understood Andy's article correctly, it's like the old shaving implement approach to turning a profit (a loss leader approach), 'give away the razor, make your money on the blades.'

But the Internet made it easy for customers to buy their blades elsewhere much cheaper. That sabotaged the profit mechanism. But now the public thinks razors are supposed to be cheap, and as long as some people are basically giving them away, transitioning to an expensive razor business model could be hard.

Richard.

I agree. The fundamental problem I have with the argument is that most diving businesses doesn't operate like that. He is presuming they do and he's wrong. Here is the stinger... Andy has worked for diving industry longer than me. And he's worked in some of the same places. So he knows this. He knows that the vast majority of courses are sold for a profit. As it right and propper. He's managed a shop so knows the costs.

His argument goes that courses are sold as a loss (false) meaning that shops have to sell equipment to stay afloat (also false). He then says the solution to this none problem is to pay more for courses. Along with an argument that all training other than high-cost training is crap. It's not an educational article - it's a sales pitch to pay more for him. And it's based on some absurdly incorrect statements.

Now I hope he does get more business and does really well. And I have nothing against the guy. But rather than promoting himself he's attacking people with a different business model. And I want to stand up for them.

 

[drrich2]

Seems to be working for them.

Can you buy comparable quality blades elsewhere that work in their razors?

If not, that approach may not work for the LDS.

If I understand correctly, there's a sense the current scuba industrial approach is sell training cheap, make your money on gear sales, the Internet broke that model, so the industry needs to evolve toward more expensive but more consistently high quality training (as the rule, not just people citing anecdotal examples who do this) with less reliance on gear sales.

Either way, people will get the training & gear they want and most will eventually become less profitable. Unless he goes tech, or pursues dive professional status, many divers don't need much more than AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, maybe Solo for some, and a good set of gear. In other words, a diver may become less of a cash cow over time.

Some only certify to vacation dive & rent gear at the destination, so perhaps it could help make them more profitable to train locally.

Richard.

 

[mdb]

"If not, that approach may not work for the LDS."

Richard.

Not referring to the LDS, referring to the manufacturer/distributor who choose
to sell direct to the end user not through a middleman (ie: LDS)

 

[drrich2]

His argument goes that courses are sold as a loss (false) meaning that shops have to sell equipment to stay afloat (also false).

Logically, I agree that a lot of courses do turn some sort of profit. Too many dive op.s at vacation destinations where people show up with their own gear or rent (e.g.: who goes to Bonaire and buys a full set of scuba gear on vacation?) market a range of courses, and I don't think it's only to get people to come stay at their resort and dive with them. Obviously, somebody is making money teaching these courses.

But labor is cheaper in some parts of the world, as well as the expected standard of living. And instructors may face pressure to certify people to keep the customers happy. And something can technically be profitable, but not nearly as profitable as other alternatives. So maybe making your money teaching scuba makes more sense in Cozumel than in Fort Lauderdale?

On the other hand, newcomers to diving don't know a lot about discriminating based on quality, and may even be intimidated at the perceived threat of more rigorous training (at the end of the day, most people signing up for OW courses want that c-card). If a number of dive op.s are offering it cheap, it's harder for one to charge double despite spending more pool time and doing more OW dives, for example. Or working in more buoyancy training.

Richard.