Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[Trace Malinowski]

Low price training doesn't have to be crap. If you or @Trace Malinowski chose to do a course for free or for a discount I'm sure you'd still do a good job.

Pride can only motivate me so much. It's amazing how much more motivated I am to get out of bed and work hard when there is a good paycheck awaiting. I don't feel like I'm slogging up Hamburger Hill in Vietnam in a no win war, when I think I can actually pay my bills, put some money in the bank, and put some towards a dive trip. I'm a far happier and more enthusiastic instructor. It's one thing to volunteer to do something for free or to discount in ways that give back to the community from time to time, but when it feels like you are teaching for nothing ... well, that's why I'm thinking about quitting.

I wish prospective students could adequately understand how much I want to work for them and give to them to help make their underwater dreams come true. Dear Prospective Student: Please let me protect you from tossing your finite time and resources into an industry that wants to steal your underwater dreams and reward you with pieces of plastic.

 

[HantsDiver]

Hi HantsDiver,

Could you reread your post? Do you see the economic fallacy that you have swerved into? Performing work for less than the cost of all resources is a free-market-system loser. It is the definition of failure.

When revenue is less than expenses, your business is insolvent. Unless of course, some entity is subsidizing your existence.

A healthy business requires profit.

Did I not understand your thinking?

thanks,
markm

We are in total agreement. But very few people perform work for less than the cost of all the resources. And none do it for long.

The fallacy is that people believe this happens. I have given one example of a diving business that's model is to be very cheap. It just so happens it's incredibly successful and the owner is a millionaire. That's without selling equipment. The actual costs of diving are not that high - and the volume business does work in many cases.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

When I was getting paid $62.78 per hour with overtime to install portable coffer dams, getting up at 3:30 AM was easy and I wanted to keep my job so I worked hard. Nearly died twice to save the company money and get a pat on the back - with a check!

 

[HantsDiver]

Pride can only motivate me so much. It's amazing how much more motivated I am to get out of bed and work hard when there is a good paycheck awaiting. I don't feel like I'm slogging up Hamburger Hill in Vietnam in a no win war, when I think I can actually pay my bills, put some money in the bank, and put some towards a dive trip. I'm a far happier and more enthusiastic instructor. It's one thing to volunteer to do something for free or to discount in ways that give back to the community from time to time, but when it feels like you are teaching for nothing ... well, that's why I'm thinking about quitting.

I wish prospective students could adequately understand how much I want to work for them and give to them to help make their underwater dreams come true. Dear Prospective Student: Please let me protect you from tossing your finite time and resources into an industry that wants to steal your underwater dreams and reward you with pieces of plastic.

My point is trace - if you won the lottery you'd still be the same person. And if you chose to still teach people to dive you'd still do a good job. You might charge less so you could pick students you like. You might not.

The idea that paying more equals quality is flawed. I'd argue that finding someone good should come before price. However, the idea that someone has to cost more to be good is totally mental.

 

[markmud]

We are in total agreement. But very few people perform work for less than the cost of all the resources. And none do it for long.

The fallacy is that people believe this happens. I have given one example of a diving business that's model is to be very cheap. It just so happens it's incredibly successful and the owner is a millionaire. That's without selling equipment. The actual costs of diving are not that high - and the volume business does work in many cases.

Hi Hants,

There are anomalies for every generalization. This thread has revealed some. Like Dolphin Scuba in Sacramento. Dolphin has succeeded in a high-tax, high regulatory, and highly litigious state. It has succeeded in spite of the industry and governmental road blocks placed in its path.

What are the wage rates for the dive shops that you are referring? Inhuman wage scales are one step above slavery. Did the dive-shop owner get rich by taking advantage of a low wage scale in the countries where he does business?

What is his business model, and how does his business model set him apart from the average dive shop/dive op?

I have enjoyed communicating with you,
markm

 

[Trace Malinowski]

The last few posts reminded me of a shop in NJ that all but stopped teaching diving once they got a taste of the profits from swimming pool repair.

 

[HantsDiver]

Hi Hants,

There are anomalies for every generalization. This thread has revealed some. Like Dolphin Scuba in Sacramento. Dolphin has succeeded in a high-tax, high regulatory, and highly litigious state. It has succeeded in spite of the industry and governmental road blocks placed in its path.

What are the wage rates for the dive shops that you are referring? Inhuman wage scales are one step above slavery. Did the dive-shop owner get rich by taking advantage of a low wage scale in the countries where he does business?

What is his business model, and how does his business model set him apart from the average dive shop/dive op?

I have enjoyed communicating with you,
markm

Wage rates are low. However, the costs of living in the area is also low. He is now a she as the Husband was killed a number of years ago - but was a Thai local. Most of the instructors are long-term professionals and not gap year kids. If you ask them if they enjoy their job - they will say the money is good. So I wouldn't say they are taken advantage off. They could leave tomorrow and get another job in one of the many many dive business' on the island. Very few do that as they earn more working there.

The business model is not unique - most businesses from Asia do the same thing. And most are profitable. They simply provide all courses up to instructor at low prices. They make smaller margins but sell more courses.

 

[KevinNM]

In the least developed countries the average income is between $1035 and $1242 per year. So yeah, getting paid $50 per student is damn good money in Haiti. Thailand has somewhere around $6000/year average income, and getting $50 per student goes pretty far if you train 4-8 students per week. You can retain pretty decent instructors if you can pay well above average income.

That isn't a viable model in the US or EU.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

That isn't a viable model in the US or EU.

I have total faith in all governments to so screw up the economy that it might indeed be viable.

 

[Edward3c]

....
I've not done any courses - but I'm sure some BSAC instructors are decent and they are very cheap.
...

Including BSAC instructors, whom aren’t in the commercial market, is misleading.