Beware of the "Grey market dealers"

[dmoore19]

Would I be be right in saying that if you buy a new computer on ebay that supposedly comes with a full manufacturers warranty that you're screwed if anything goes wrong ? Will the manufacturers void the warranty if its not from an authorized dealer ?

I would say yes. However places like LP have their own warranty that they use that is not the same as a manufacturers warranty.

 

[jd950]

Your post suggests you sent it for repair, they tested it and found it was functioning properly. From that, you announce that one should never buy "grey market." You then state what high standards Suunto has for their products (one of which apparently doesn't work right)

What makes you think Suunto would have done anything else had you paid double and gotten it locally? Maybe whatever problem you are having is within factory specs and Suunto wouldn't have repaired it either. You offer nothing to support your claim. Why not have the computer repaired by Suunto and then submit the bill to the shop who wouldn't fix it, as proof of the problem, and demand they pay the repair bill. If you don't want to pay for a repair, at least get an estimate from Suunto. Then, if the seller won't stand up and make it right, post here and I will be on your side.

I am glad you are happy with that D9 from a local shop a full retail. Paying more for it will not make it work better for the 24 months it is under warranty. By the way, that Suunto warranty isn't without its own little loopholes:

This Limited Warranty does not cover:

1. a) normal wear and tear b) defects caused by rough handling...or defects or damage caused by misuse of the Product;

3. defects or alleged defects caused by the fact that the Product was used with, or connected to, any product, accessory, software and/or service not manufactured, or supplied by Suunto or was used otherwise than for its intended use;

This Limited Warranty is not enforceable if:

4. the Product has been exposed to influence from chemical products including (but not limited to) mosquito repellence.

And finally.....

Suunto does not warrant that the operation of the Product will be uninterrupted or error free.

I understand you are upset with your failed computer, but unless you have more information to share, the fact that you didn't pay full retail at a local shop seems irrelevant to your problem. Why not complain about the defective product itself?

Sorry, but that's how I see it.

 

[RAWalker]

Don't buy much gear there do you Walker....... they all have MAP pricing. That doesn't dictate what the item is sold for, just what it is advertised for. It is the manufactures way (although sad) of building value in their product by keeping the price the same everywhere someone looks.

All you have to do is shop around to find a price well under a MAP.....

Notice I did say MARP and not MAP.
I happen to buy quite a bit of gear between myself and my wife.
I by quality gear and use both online sources and a couple of LDS.
I choose not to buy gear from manufacturers that don't allow their dealers to set the price or use the internet to market goods.
Thank goodness most of the manufacturers although they set the advertized price allow the dealer to set the sale price.

 

[Splash-X]

The number of these threads that have crept up over the past month is amazing. It must be that summer has driven people to buy more gear?

This board needs a specific section dedicated to "grey market" purchases so these threads don't crop up in all different subareas.


In this section of the forum this thread should have been for "My computer is freaking out" not about where you bought the computer. Regardless of WHERE you bought the computer it still broke.

Now, the question is would the original manufacturer treated your claim to warranty any different? Did accidental misuse of the product contribute to the problem you're having? Did it get packed in with the rest of your dive gear and get thrown around or thrown on a boat?


Finding out the root cause of the problem goes a long way before placing blame on the place you purchased it from!

 

[limirl]

If it is not bought from an authorized dealer, then it does not have a warranty to void in the first place........

Guess I thought that new is new regardless of whom you buy it from. Once you register the product with the manufacturer and the serial number matches up as being one of their legitimate products then why wouldn't they honor it ? Am I missing something obvious here ?

 

[tridacna]

Oh yeah? Well I just saw this on Leisurpro's site:

TAKE YOUR CHANCES
List price: [-]A nickle[/-]
Our price: Three cents
You saved: 40%

REALLY? I just saw this on Learn To Dive Today

TAKE YOUR CHANCES
List Price: A nickel
Our Price: $10,000
You saved: NOTHING YOU SUCKER

:shocked2:

I'm not sure why you choose to beat this dead horse over and over....it's ridiculous.

 

[jd950]

Guess I thought that new is new regardless of whom you buy it from. Once you register the product with the manufacturer and the serial number matches up as being one of their legitimate products then why wouldn't they honor it ? Am I missing something obvious here ?

There may be more, but two companies in particular, Aqualung (who is also Suunto & Seaquest) and Scubapro officially refuse to allow their products to be sold via the internet in the USA, and dictate the selling price of their products by their authorized dealers. The same restrictions don't apply outside the U.S., so their products can be bought at substantial discounts from dealers outside the U.S., and from some U.S. merchants, including Leisure Pro.

AL and SP will only warranty the product in the country in which you bought it, and only if bought from an authorized dealer (or perhaps anywhere in the EU if you buy in the EU?)

If you buy Aqualung, Seaquest, Suunto or Scubapro over the internet or outside of the country, or from other than an authorized dealer, you have no factory warranty. Leisure Pro offers their own warranty on AL and SP merchandise since the manufacturer won't stand behind the products. Some people find this acceptable; some don't.

Most other companies, including Oceanic, Atomic, Tusa, and a bunch more allow internet sales and discounting of their products by authorized dealers.

Periodically, someone crops up and alerts everyone to the fact that LP sells so called grey market AL and SP stuff that doesn't have a factory warranty. Some of these people are truly surprised by this; some figured they would never need the warranty and then did need it and are angry about their decision, some are authorized dealers who get ticked off that they are losing sales to internet merchants, and I am sure some have other motives.

In my opinion, that is the issue. I am sure others would disagree.

Bottom line, if you are buying AL or SP, compare the price from the authorized dealer and elsewhere; factor in any required annual service you would need to to maintain the warranty, and decide if the price difference is worth it to have the factory warranty. Act accordingly.

 

[DiverRider]

Your post suggests you sent it for repair, they tested it and found it was functioning properly. From that, you announce that one should never buy "grey market." You then state what high standards Suunto has for their products (one of which apparently doesn't work right)

What makes you think Suunto would have done anything else had you paid double and gotten it locally? Maybe whatever problem you are having is within factory specs and Suunto wouldn't have repaired it either. You offer nothing to support your claim. Why not have the computer repaired by Suunto and then submit the bill to the shop who wouldn't fix it, as proof of the problem, and demand they pay the repair bill. If you don't want to pay for a repair, at least get an estimate from Suunto. Then, if the seller won't stand up and make it right, post here and I will be on your side.

I am glad you are happy with that D9 from a local shop a full retail. Paying more for it will not make it work better for the 24 months it is under warranty. By the way, that Suunto warranty isn't without its own little loopholes:

This Limited Warranty does not cover:

1. a) normal wear and tear b) defects caused by rough handling...or defects or damage caused by misuse of the Product;

3. defects or alleged defects caused by the fact that the Product was used with, or connected to, any product, accessory, software and/or service not manufactured, or supplied by Suunto or was used otherwise than for its intended use;

This Limited Warranty is not enforceable if:

4. the Product has been exposed to influence from chemical products including (but not limited to) mosquito repellence.

And finally.....

Suunto does not warrant that the operation of the Product will be uninterrupted or error free.

I understand you are upset with your failed computer, but unless you have more information to share, the fact that you didn't pay full retail at a local shop seems irrelevant to your problem. Why not complain about the defective product itself?

Sorry, but that's how I see it.

My post did say I sent it to the grey dealer and they in turn sent it to a Suunto service center. My post also indicates that when I received it back I downloaded the data they provided to me in paper form. In the logs using the Suunto Dive Manager I saw ascent errors as indicated by my post, that being the reason the flag went up in the first place. The fact I probably didn't communicate properly was that I was not allowed direct contact with the service center about the problem. I found out on my own where it was for repair, the grey dealer wouldn't tell me. After locating the device by serial number in one of 3 service centers the owner said he could not discuss the details of the device with me. That was due to the grey dealer having sent the device in for repair.

The price I paid was not "double" as you say in your reply post. In my post I indicated the outlined failure at 26 feet and what I and a DM had saw at that depth. Do you really think that type of operation is within factory specs? This info was provided to the grey dealer as the root cause failure. I was told they would do 2 "96 hour" tests. I received no results of those so called tests. What I didn’t mention was the loss of 7 dives from the data base, that was another problem discussed with the grey dealer and nothing was said about it after the so called evaluation was done by the service center.

Now that I bought from a retail shop I will have the ability to communicate directly with the service center, that’s what buying "full retail" got me.

I understand the warranty and thank you for posting for all to see. It is a device that under extreme handling or any of the other things mentioned will result in a voided warranty.

I circumvented that by having it insured and is now underwritten by my insurance carrier. Hence there is a way around that aspect of warranty. By the way the cost of doing this, ($21/Yr.) outweighs the value of the device.

You seemed intent on bashing my post as one that is against grey market dealers. That is far from the truth, I buy from LP all the time. But I suggest buying from an authorized dealer for items of this nature so one doesn't have to go through the hassle that I was subjected to by dealing with a third party.

Would you like a copy of my dive log Access data base, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

All in all this is a complaint about the product but there is no easy way to resolve it other than as you stated have it independently evaluated at my expense. This is something I realized after the fact.

Have a great day!

 

[jd950]

You seemed intent on bashing my post as one that is against grey market dealers. That is far from the truth, I buy from LP all the time. But I suggest buying from an authorized dealer for items of this nature so one doesn't have to go through the hassle that I was subjected to by dealing with a third party.

If I mis-read your post as one "bashing" grey market sellers, perhaps it was because of the title "Beware of the Grey market dealers." That, and the fact that the only purpose of your thread was to warn people away from such dealers.

Thanks for the offer of the dive logs and such but I don't have any need for them and I was not accusing you of being dishonest, I just felt (and feel) that your hostility was mis-directed. As I now understand the problem, it was in fact a Suunto service center that declared your computer was fine and refused to repair it, yet you insist that the so called grey market dealer is at fault. Since you have a new Suunto with factory warranty, full insurance and a dealer who will insure that Suunto repairs or replaces your new computer should it fail under warranty, you should have no further problems.

I apologize if I seemed to attack you, I meant only to disagree with you.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

So why did you buy a product from Suunto a company that does not stand behind its own products? Hopefully you learned your lesson to stay away from Suunto, Aqualung and Scubapro. There are other more consumer friendly companies on the market, why not buy from them?