Best type of Pony Tank setup?

[Sean326]

To points 1 and 2...I assume that you practice this often enough to feel comfortable handing off the pony in an emergency?

Yeah I do practice a lot, Zeagle has a great setup. Very secure yet easy to remove.

Have you planned how deep you can comfortably go with the pony and have that pony provide gas during the entier ascent?

Based on my experiments at about 100' (and posted on the board)

Yeah I currently have a 3cuft (spair air) which I have posted about often and is totally useless, my kids use it as a pool toy.

I also tried a 6cuft pony, this will get you to the surface but with no safety stops and no loitering.

My 19cuft offers time to solve a problem, a safe ascent to a safety or deco stop and a leisurely return to the surface.

I don't see how carrying a pony does not introduce an entanglement issue as opposed to not carrying it.

Well.... I don't have a pic but honestly you can barely see it, granted I am a big guy 6'1" and 280# but the tank is zipped into a holster behind my rt arm and under my rt wing. It really does not stick out any further than my wing.

And lastly, the way you have your pony affixed to your rig, how do you monitor the pressure in the po itself?

I have a pony bottle spg on the first stage, it's just the size of a dime.
When I first get suited up I crack the valve and see that it is full then I re-close the valve. Zeagle has it rigged valve down so I can see the spg during the dive just by looking down at my rt waist and pulling the tank toward me.
That way I can see during the dive the reg is still pressurized. If I need it myself I just pull the reg and open the valve. If I need to pass it off I just unzip the holster and pass the whole thing to my buddy through a porthole etc.

I know that some folks say I should leave the valve open but it's a judgment call, I feel better with tank sealed and taking the 1 second to turn it on rather than having the valve open for the possible loss of gas. To date the reg has always been pressurized after the dive, so I guess I could leave the valve open but still I keep it closed.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Based on my experiments at about 100' (and posted on the board)

I also tried a 6cuft pony, this will get you to the surface but with no safety stops and no loitering.

I'm glad you're not relying on a 6 cu ft. pony at 100' (b/c it only has 1.5 cu. ft of air in it at 100')...IMO this is useless, and will not get you to the surface.

My 19cuft offers time to solve a problem, a safe ascent to a safety or deco stop and a leisurely return to the surface.

I'm still not sold on the 19 cu. ft. pony being a valid reserve...Let's say you're on a 100' wreck and you pass it off (it now has approx. 5 cu. ft in it). At an assumed elevated SAC of 1 cu.ft./min and 1 minute to solve said issue at depth, you've spent 20% of that bottle....now get back to the up-line...another minute...thus 40% is gone....leaving you 60% of the bottle for an ascent, or 11.5 cu. ft. A safe ascent IMO would be at an average depth of 45' and last 6 minutes (stops at 70,30,20,10 with 30 fpm ascent rate)....hmmm....your buddy only gets to the surface if he calms down and drops his SAC.

If I need to pass it off I just unzip the holster and pass the whole thing to my buddy through a porthole etc.

I'm not going to ask why one of you is on the opposite side of a porthole

I know that some folks say I should leave the valve open but it's a judgment call, I feel better with tank sealed and taking the 1 second to turn it on rather than having the valve open for the possible loss of gas. To date the reg has always been pressurized after the dive, so I guess I could leave the valve open but still I keep it closed.

I disagree with folks...you should leave the reg pressurized, but the valve closed....no sense in risking the loss of gas at depth.

 

[Sean326]

I'm still not sold on the 19 cu. ft. pony being a valid reserve...Let's say you're on a 100' wreck and you pass it off (it now has approx. 5 cu. ft in it). At an assumed elevated SAC of 1 cu.ft./min and 1 minute to solve said issue at depth, you've spent 20% of that bottle....now get back to the up-line...another minute...thus 40% is gone....leaving you 60% of the bottle for an ascent, or 11.5 cu. ft. A safe ascent IMO would be at an average depth of 45' and last 6 minutes (stops at 70,30,20,10 with 30 fpm ascent rate)....hmmm....your buddy only gets to the surface if he calms down and drops his SAC.

I'm not a big math guy, I just went down to 100' with my buddy and tried each tank.

3cuft got me to about 30'

6 cuft got me up but was empty on the surface

19 cuft got me up, a safety stop and had gas left.

Again it's a judgment call my buddy dives with a 30cuft. attached to his primary tank. When your out of air you will want quad hp 120s as spairs, but do you want to haul them around for the hundred dives where you don't need them?

case in point... at various times in my life I have needed to carry a gun.
When I didn't need the gun it felt huge, was very uncomfortable to carry and a hassle in the car under the seat belt etc. But the one time I needed it I wished I was carrying an M-60 or ma deuce .50 cal.

I also know from from experience that the same law applies to fire extinguishers, fire trucks etc.

 

[Big-t-2538]

I'm not a big math guy, I just went down to 100' with my buddy and tried each tank.

That's fine and all, but as you mention you just tried them....thus you don't have a boosted SAC which is not unlikely in the event of an emergency.

Also, you don't have any stops with the 6 cu ft. bottle, and you only threw in a safety stop with the 19 ft. bottle. I would not consider that a slow enough ascent for my comfort realm from 100'.

 

[Sean326]

That's fine and all, but as you mention you just tried them....thus you don't have a boosted SAC which is not unlikely in the event of an emergency.

This is what I wrote on annother thread last summer.

My buddy and I went down to 95' and I simulated an OOA situation. I exhaled, took out my primary, took 20 seconds to simulate messing with my reg brought my backup reg to my mouth (but i didn't inhale). then i pulled out my spare air and started a CSA.
I tried to control my breathing safely, I didn't add air to my BC, and I kept an eye on my computer and kept my ascent rate at 100% to 120% I ran out of air at 35'.... good for about 4 breaths
If I was really out of air I probably would have been more aggressive and dropped my belt but I also would have been more panicked. (it was just a fun test I wasn't going to risk getting hurt)
In summery I have turned my spare air over to my kids as a really cool pool toy.

Yeah I guess it wasn't laboratory conditions but it was a fair test done at a greater than average depth.

I could be at 30' when I have a problem or 130'

In some cases the 19 cuft will be overkill and in others it will not be enough
My buddy won't get wet without a 30 cuft pony, I understand that but I feel comfortable with my much sleeker and compact 19 cuft.

 

[Boogie711]

My Pony is always at least an AL80. Sometimes it's an LP95 or a set of double 104's. A lot of people think that's too much air to carry around in a pony, so I agree. I get a guy to put it on his back and follow me around. Sometimes I follow him around. This "special deluxe" pony also pays for it's own airfills, and cuts me out of entanglements, and occasionally buys coffee for me at Tim Horton's after.

I like my pony.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Do you have any data as for what an ascent rate of 100% to 120% is?

Is it 100% of 60fpm....or what?

You are right, at those ascent rates, a 19 cu ft pony is plenty to get you to the surface....it is not enough gas to do the ascent I described. i also still stand by the fact that this is a controlled test, thus your SAC is predictable....not like in an emergency.

I tried to control my breathing safely, I didn't add air to my BC, and I kept an eye on my computer and kept my ascent rate at 100% to 120%

 

[TechBlue]

My Pony is always at least an AL80. Sometimes it's an LP95 or a set of double 104's. A lot of people think that's too much air to carry around in a pony, so I agree. I get a guy to put it on his back and follow me around. Sometimes I follow him around. This "special deluxe" pony also pays for it's own airfills, and cuts me out of entanglements, and occasionally buys coffee for me at Tim Horton's after.

I like my pony.

I was wondering if you give your pony a nice rub down after a hard day of diving<g> Hi Jeff, got the o-rings-thanks.

 

[Boogie711]

Naw - "Boss-Lady" is a non-diver. She said I'm only allowed to give rubdowns to her.

 

[Sean326]

Do you have any data as for what an ascent rate of 100% to 120% is?

Is it 100% of 60fpm....or what?

You are right, at those ascent rates, a 19 cu ft pony is plenty to get you to the surface....it is not enough gas to do the ascent I described. i also still stand by the fact that this is a controlled test, thus your SAC is predictable....not like in an emergency.

Yes... like I said before in a real OOA situation you will really want a HP 120 pony, but do you want to carry that around for the hundred or two hundred dives where you don't need it. For me the 19 is a nice compromise between size and capacity. Meaning small enough to be convenient but large enough to be meaningful. Again as I said above I dive with a guy who won't get wet without a 30 pony. Conversely as you will read in this thread there are those that think a pony of any kind is a waste of time and money.

For me being a PA/NJ diver the argument is academic, I have to carry a pony or dive doubles if I want to board a NJ dive boat. As a result I make the pony part of my routine equipment setup even for non boat dives so I am used to the configuration.

And yes my computer is programed at the factory for 60 fpm.
(But honestly I've never ascended while comparing my watch depth gage and computer)
and yes I did do a safety stop when coming up from 95' on my 19 pony. And as I said above I still had gas... so I could have done some deco if my computer required it.