Best signalling equipment from the searchers point of view

[woodcarver]

Very good info in this thread! Thanks to everyone for the information provided.
Obviously a lot has changed since the beginning of this thread; radar reflecting SMBs are now commonly available, Nautilus Marine GPS units are not very expensive ($215) considering their effectiveness, and a lot of the strobes on the market today can use lithium batteries with longer operating times, and better seals.
The training agencies would be doing their students a great service if more of this information was incorporated into the training. Not just what's available, but how to use it and when. Our first open ocean dives in Cozumel were all drift dives where we were expected to deploy a DSMB at the end. Other than having been shown one, I had never actually done it before at depth. Fortunately, I had a pretty good idea of what was going to happen when I started putting air in the tube. But I've watched a number of new divers have all sorts of problems, some fairly serious, when they tried to shoot a sausage. That's if they even had one.
Thanks again for sharing some good info. Have to add some dye to the kit....
Any color SMB is better than no SMB...

 

[T.C.]

While I don't have time to read 23 pages, I wanted to add one thing: Chemlights/Glowsticks.

You can quickly and easily make these much more effective for a pilot to see by attaching 3-5 feet of line to one and swinging in a circle over your head. Now the pilot/crew sees a 6-10 foot diameter circle that is moving instead of a small point light.

It's simple and makes your chemlight work much better. We use this technique in A-stan to signal pilots who have difficulty spotting our LZ.

 

[Rred]

The training agencies....You see, that in itself is a problem. There really are no SCUBA training agencies, except perhaps the military or NOAA training. Everyone in the civilian market is really a SALES organization, created to sell SCUBA classes, equipment, and resort travel. And if they actually took the time for extensive safety training or screening? Yeah, that serious stuff bores some of the potential market, scares away more of it, and flunking out the potential victims cuts down sales even more.

Catch-22, the retail organizations will never really be safety oriented. Their only interest in safety is "let's make it enough of a point so we can't be sued for negligence, and the public won't be scared away by stories in the news about divers dying."

I had the luck to be trained in a university course, so it was a COURSE where grading and failing was expected, and the man teaching it had no economic incentive to pass everyone, or amuse everyone. Reasons why I found over the years that we'd been taught from a more safety-first point of view than a lot of friends who were taught in "retail" programs.

Eventually, I think the dive industry is going to find itself really surprised when The Government steps in and starts messing with things, as someone always gets upset and complains when someone in the family becomes one of those dead divers that really shouldn't and needn't have died.

 

[tursiops]

The training agencies....You see, that in itself is a problem. There really are no SCUBA training agencies, except perhaps the military or NOAA training. Everyone in the civilian market is really a SALES organization, created to sell SCUBA classes, equipment, and resort travel. And if they actually took the time for extensive safety training or screening? Yeah, that serious stuff bores some of the potential market, scares away more of it, and flunking out the potential victims cuts down sales even more.

Catch-22, the retail organizations will never really be safety oriented. Their only interest in safety is "let's make it enough of a point so we can't be sued for negligence, and the public won't be scared away by stories in the news about divers dying."

I had the luck to be trained in a university course, so it was a COURSE where grading and failing was expected, and the man teaching it had no economic incentive to pass everyone, or amuse everyone. Reasons why I found over the years that we'd been taught from a more safety-first point of view than a lot of friends who were taught in "retail" programs.

Eventually, I think the dive industry is going to find itself really surprised when The Government steps in and starts messing with things, as someone always gets upset and complains when someone in the family becomes one of those dead divers that really shouldn't and needn't have died.

Since you are certain that the training agencies are just fronts for sales organizations, I suspect you will not care to know that deployment of a DSMB is now required for PADI's Open Water training, as is actually dropping one's weights, instead of just kind of sort of showing you can do it. OK, back to your incessant criticisms.

 

[Rred]

How nice to hear that PADI has upgraded their basic. Do you think this is because....they were clueless about the need for it until now? Or perhaps, they heard the sound of too many lawyers after incidents like the newly certified woman in Hawaii a few years ago, who drowned in about 30? feet of water, mainly because she somehow couldn't figure out how to drop her weights?

Like the lion and the scorpion, no matter how nice that scorpion seems to be, his nature still isn't going to change, is it? Now, if PADI simply stopped issuing "Open Water" aka "Basic" and simply required all the "Advanced" training for their first level of certification, I'd have more respect for them. I understand the reasons for breaking training (any kind of training) into bite-sized morsels, but by that logic there's no need for 4-year medical schools, they could begin practice after six months and learn the rest when and if they needed to.

 

[EireDiver606]

How nice to hear that PADI has upgraded their basic. Do you think this is because....they were clueless about the need for it until now? Or perhaps, they heard the sound of too many lawyers after incidents like the newly certified woman in Hawaii a few years ago, who drowned in about 30? feet of water, mainly because she somehow couldn't figure out how to drop her weights?

Like the lion and the scorpion, no matter how nice that scorpion seems to be, his nature still isn't going to change, is it? Now, if PADI simply stopped issuing "Open Water" aka "Basic" and simply required all the "Advanced" training for their first level of certification, I'd have more respect for them. I understand the reasons for breaking training (any kind of training) into bite-sized morsels, but by that logic there's no need for 4-year medical schools, they could begin practice after six months and learn the rest when and if they needed to.

PADIs advanced course isn’t a higher standard. It’s just deeper and with dives of selected variation. You seemingly don’t much about the organisations you are so eagerly trying to deface...

 

[T.C.]

Or perhaps, they heard the sound of too many lawyers after incidents like the newly certified woman in Hawaii a few years ago, who drowned in about 30? feet of water, mainly because she somehow couldn't figure out how to drop her weights?

That sounds like she didn't know how to use her weight system.

That's on the diver, not the training agency- who without a doubt taught her the importance of releasing weights, and how to release a weight belt. So- she either was diving with unfamilar equipment (which she was trained to get familiar with before diving, thus it's back to her), or she forgot how to open her hand.

That's really all the training seems to have added- how to open your hand and let the lead go. I doubt this would have saved the life of a diver who already violated her training.

Like the lion and the scorpion, no matter how nice that scorpion seems to be, his nature still isn't going to change, is it? Now, if PADI simply stopped issuing "Open Water" aka "Basic" and simply required all the "Advanced" training for their first level of certification, I'd have more respect for them. I understand the reasons for breaking training (any kind of training) into bite-sized morsels, but by that logic there's no need for 4-year medical schools, they could begin practice after six months and learn the rest when and if they needed to.

Your analogy is not correct; as Medical School,like every form of training, is already broken down incrementally. Medical School does not produce Brain Surgeons and Trama Doctors. Just as Open Water training produces Divers, Medical School produces Doctors- Doctors who then can specialize and receive further training and certification as they wish.

So what does 'advanced' teach? It teaches one deep dive, which is of dubious value, and teaches a navigation dive. Neither is going to make the diver significantly more skilled and safe- only experience can do that. Many divers just dive shallow reefs, and never do anything challenging- which is perfectly acceptable. They'll never need the deep skills or navigation skills.

Would either of these skills have saved the life of the diver in your example?

You're thinking along the lines that 'Advanced Open Water' produces Advanced Divers. You're reading it incorrectly. Advanced Open Water simply is a little more Open Water training, it teaches concepts that are more advance than that of Open Water; it does not produce Advanced Divers.

Just as Advanced Calculus builds on Calculus and Pre-Calculus, yet it does not makes the student an Advanced Mathematician.

 

[Dan]

While I don't have time to read 23 pages, I wanted to add one thing: Chemlights/Glowsticks.

You can quickly and easily make these much more effective for a pilot to see by attaching 3-5 feet of line to one and swinging in a circle over your head. Now the pilot/crew sees a 6-10 foot diameter circle that is moving instead of a small point light.

It's simple and makes your chemlight work much better. We use this technique in A-stan to signal pilots who have difficulty spotting our LZ.

Yes, that’s a good idea. It’s discussed in page 3 by @Nick_W over 10 years ago

I should preface this by saying that I am not a pilot, just a guy who has been picked up by a helicopter more times than I can remember.


One thing we used to do when we were signaling pilots at night is take an IR chemlight and tie it to a piece of 550 cord about three or four feet long and swing in a circle over our head. The pilots used to tell us that with NVGs on that would catch their attention in a heartbeat. If you're not worried about limiting your audience to only those who are wearing NVGs, I imagine you can do the same with a normal chemlight to increase the visibility.

 

[Dan]

OP comment on the twirling glow stick.
NVG = Night Vision Goggle.
IR = Infra Red.

....Another way to increase the efeectiveness of signals is motion. Even if you don't have any signaling devices, throwing water in the air can be effective.

I like the glowstick on a string idea. I don't know how long you could twirl it but If you did it when you heard a helicopter/ship it would work. I wouldn't bother with the IR ones though. They are only used when you want the guys on NVG's to see you but nobody else. I think in this cae we want everyone to be able to see us.

OnStar

 

[T.C.]

Yes, that’s a good idea. It’s discussed in page 3 by @Nick_W over 10 years ago

Well, aren't we the bored one with an eidictic memory...

I'm glad someone posted it so others could benefit.