Best practices of GUE versus other dive programs ?

[KevinNM]

If you mean maintaining good buoyancy and trim and performing a skill, it sounds like PADI is already making efforts in that direction, as Boulderjohn has informed us.

Problem is that that isn't how most NEW instructors are taught. If most new instructors learn to teach on only on their knees then things won't actually get better.

 

[sigxbill]

My experience with TDI instruction is every bit as good as I am told GUE is.

I would say that is very subjective and debatable. I'm sure you thought your instructor was great - as most people wish to think. It is almost certain that you did not learn everything that GUE trained divers learn, and if so, then that statement can't be true. And the premise that one can compare the two as equal - when TDI was founded on their race to the bottom (first to eliminate tables, first to lower age to 10, deep air champion leader, $25 instructor paper crossovers, etc.) - is not reasonable ...

 

[boulderjohn]

You mean GUE Fundies was Andrew's creation? How was GUE training structured before Andrew came on board?

It wasn't. GUE grew out of WKPP, and Andrew was with WKPP when it was headed by George Irvine.

 

[KevinNM]

You mean GUE Fundies was Andrew's creation? How was GUE training structured before Andrew came on board?

I've been told that there was a lot of instructor heartburn with poorly qualified students getting into the tech/cave classes. What do you do when you have two competent divers and one guy who kicks up silt and bumps into the ceiling every few minutes? Or one competent and two clownshows? Or even if you are the clownshow, did you realize you were not qualified?

So Essentials went from an optional course to a mandatory screen, though when and how long that took I don't know.

 

[boulderjohn]

I've been told that there was a lot of instructor heartburn with poorly qualified students getting into the tech/cave classes. What do you do when you have two competent divers and one guy who kicks up silt and bumps into the ceiling every few minutes? Or one competent and two clownshows? Or even if you are the clownshow, did you realize you were not qualified?

So Essentials went from an optional course to a mandatory screen, though when and how long that took I don't know.

It makes perfect sense.

When I entered cave diving instruction, I was already a technical diver with experience with doubles, drysuits, frog kicks, etc. On my first day of cavern training, while we were suiting up at the Ginnie Springs Ballroom, a diver came over and asked about cave training. My instructor handed him his card, and we went back to work. The first part of cavern training is done in the open water, and while we were doing that, we saw that diver and his wife practicing skills. When we first saw them, they were kneeling on the bottom, clearing their masks. A few more glimpses made it clear that he was nowhere near ready for cave training.

For most cave diving agencies that I know of, simply being an AOW diver is enough to stat training. I think the idea of having a more rigorous requirement for entry would be a really good idea, one that all agencies should adopt.

But this thread is about initial open water training, not cave training.

 

[scubadada]

...But this thread is about initial open water training, not cave training.

Oh......you keep returning to the topic of the OP

 

[boulderjohn]

Oh......you keep returning to the topic of the OP

Sorry--I realize that this violates ScubaBoard norms, but sometimes I just can't help it.

 

[Bob DBF]

But this thread is about initial open water training, not cave training.

Oh......you keep returning to the topic of the OP

The scoundrel! If he keeps it up he will be banned from the internet.


Bob

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Oh......you keep returning to the topic of the OP

Okay, I'll actually answer the OP. If you read other agency standards they sometimes read as being higher than GUE's standards.

For example, TDI's Intro to Tech standards read, "Demonstrate adequate buoyancy control (ability to hover at fixed position in water column without moving hands or feet)."

The GUE standard for GUE Fundamentals reads, "Demonstrate good buoyancy and trim, i.e. approximate reference is a maximum of 30 degrees off horizontal while remaining within 5 feet/1.5 meters of a target depth."

TDI's standard reads like a zero tolerance policy. GUE's is more forgiving. Yet, GUE as an organization is considered to have higher standards. The difference is that GUE places much more emphasis on excellence of performance in the real world of practical diving skill work. The ultimate solution to the problems that plague the diving industry is to follow GUE's lead and have higher professional standards for instructors since dung or excellence rolls down hill. I would be a GUE instructor except for:

• I already have a religion
• I like to dive alone as much as I like to dive with others (depends on my mood)

Export GUE's high instructor standards while allowing instructors that can demonstrate truly cultivated personal skill the freedom to play with other scuba toys without needing to receive a memo from the CEO. But, GUE isn't so much a training agency as it is an organization. GUE has SOP's the same as PSD teams and the US Navy. Training is a means to an end. The goal of GUE is to create GUE divers. The goal of the US Navy is to create naval divers. The goal of most training agencies is to create a safe diver who can go play however they see fit with whatever toys they want to use. That kind of freedom adds to the fun and enjoyment of diving for many. GUE finally has sidemount. Many GUE instructors went to Edd Sorenson who started with PSAI and added other agencies to build is credibility and marketability. If Edd started with GUE and never left, Edd would not ever have become one of the world's most highly regarded sidemount instructors.

 

[boulderjohn]

Okay, I'll actually answer the OP. If you read other agency standards they sometimes read as being higher than GUE's standards.

For example, TDI's Intro to Tech standards read, "Demonstrate adequate buoyancy control (ability to hover at fixed position in water column without moving hands or feet)."

The GUE standard for GUE Fundamentals reads, "Demonstrate good buoyancy and trim, i.e. approximate reference is a maximum of 30 degrees off horizontal while remaining within 5 feet/1.5 meters of a target depth."

Let's all repeat it together three times:

This thread is about basic open water training, not about technical diving and cave diving.
This thread is about basic open water training, not about technical diving and cave diving.
This thread is about basic open water training, not about technical diving and cave diving.