Best agency for learning Tech diving - criteria given - honest :)

[LiteHedded]

If you look at the initial entry of this issue into this thread and if you look at the original statement from BSAC about their position, I see a possible reason. In both statements, the writers state that what they call "hog looping" is a relatively rare phenomenon.

Here is a portion of the original statement:


Here is a portion of post #117 in this thread:


As I stated in my initial response, this is news to me. To my knowledge, BSAC is the only agency involved with tech diving that does NOT teach it. It was certainly taught in the 5 agencies with which I have technical diving experience. I have never seen an open circuit technical diver (other than sidemount) doing anything else. I was just certified to teach PADI's tech courses, and they not only have a major section explaining this, that section was part of the course before PADI took over from DSAT years ago.

It seems to me that BSAC needs to have a special name for it to differentiate it from what they teach. For the rest of us, it requires no special name, because it is just a standard part of what we do.

yea I've had training from multiple agencies as well. all while breathing the long hose.
stuffing is so problematic it's hard to understand why they would teach it

 

[Lorenzoid]

yea I've had training from multiple agencies as well. all while breathing the long hose.
stuffing is so problematic it's hard to understand why they would teach it

So we have "hog looping" versus "hose stuffing."

 

[boulderjohn]

Can anyone else give an example of a technical agency other than BSAC that does not teach using the long hose as the primary? Can anyone give an example of having seen technical divers other than BSAC who dive that way?

 

[KenGordon]

If you look at the initial entry of this issue into this thread and if you look at the original statement from BSAC about their position, I see a possible reason. In both statements, the writers state that what they call "hog looping" is a relatively rare phenomenon.

Here is a portion of the original statement:


Here is a portion of post #117 in this thread:


As I stated in my initial response, this is news to me. To my knowledge, BSAC is the only agency involved with tech diving that does NOT teach it. It was certainly taught in the 5 agencies with which I have technical diving experience. I have never seen an open circuit technical diver (other than sidemount) doing anything else. I was just certified to teach PADI's tech courses, and they not only have a major section explaining this, that section was part of the course before PADI took over from DSAT years ago.

It seems to me that BSAC needs to have a special name for it to differentiate it from what they teach. For the rest of us, it requires no special name, because it is just a standard part of what we do.

You need to come and dive here. I have a couple of spaces on the best boat in Scapa in October 2016 if you fancy it.

I may be wrong, but I believe this arose when a branch was teaching hog looping at introductory level to all divers. Given the standard is secondary take then that would not be acceptable.

As a matter of interest. What do those 5 agencies teach for independent twins? Also what does PADI teach at OW? Is it a fixed technique or just whatever the instructor thinks best?

 

[shoredivr]

Nobody I've seen teaches independent twins unless it's sidemount ;-)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My agency (NAUI) doesn't teach "take" at all ... it teaches "donate". Why would anyone want to teach divers to allow a potentially panicked diver to be the one who decides which regulator they're going to get? Seems to me that the owner of that reg should be the one who decides.

That is also how I learned (YMCA) ... donor donates ... not recipient "takes". You put one out there where all they have to do is grab it and it won't much matter which one it happens to be ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[shoredivr]

And *of course* you'd see more long "hose stuffing" in British diving as you're on a BSAC club RIB or day boat charter surrounded by BSAC trained divers. Kind of a circular argument, n'est ce pas?

Here in the Great Lakes I have maybe once seen someone stuffing a long hose in 17 years of diving.

 

[rongoodman]

There were some badly done line drawings of stuffed hoses in my IANTD cave manual. I don't remember the copyright year, but remember being very unimpressed with it.

 

[boulderjohn]

As a matter of interest. What do those 5 agencies teach for independent twins?

I have never seen any of them talk about independent twins.

Also what does PADI teach at OW? Is it a fixed technique or just whatever the instructor thinks best?

At the OW level, PADI teaches that a student has to be able to both donate and receive in an OOA situation. the precise method is not mentioned, and instructors are free to choose which method they want to teach. The primary donation of a long hose is acceptable. I tell students that there are a lot of possibilities, depending upon gear, and they should go over the preferred methods with their buddies prior to the dive. I also teach them that in an OOA emergency, it does not matter what method you believe in, because the OOA diver is going to dictate what you do. If that OOA diver signals OOA and hangs in front of you ready for you to donate, what does the person only taught secondary take

This thread, however, is not about OW instruction. It is about technical instruction. PADI assumes that technical divers will be in technical gear, which means a long hose primary and a bungeed alternate. They don't mention an alternate setup, because that's how technical divers dive.

 

[Redshift]

As a matter of interest. What do those 5 agencies teach for independent twins? Also what does PADI teach at OW? Is it a fixed technique or just whatever the instructor thinks best?

It's interesting to know what BSAC does when a diver is in indies and at the moment breathing from the long hose when a buddy asks for gas...

PADI does not mandate a method. I know of PADI dive centres who teach with BP/W and Hogarthian configuration from the start.