Belize Tragedy

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I have to admit, I'm back to wondering about the utility of a small handheld, like a Standard Horizon HX370S, for travel.

Either keep it in my save-a-dive, else drop it into a small threaded piece of PVC (DIY waterproof can )

For anyone contemplating swimming towards things, the horizon is 1.17xsqrt(hgt in feet)

In other words, if your head is at 9' above the water (say, standing on even a fairly small boat), 1.17 x sqrt(9) = 1.17 x 3 = 3.5 nautical miles. This is additive -- if what you are looking at, right on the horizon, is a building's fifth floor, that's really at 50' above sea level, its contribution is 1.17 x sqrt(50) = 1.17 x 7 = 8 nm, so your total distance is 3.5 + 8 = 11.5 nm.
 
DandyDon:
I don't know, but suspect[/U these divers were using rental gear - obtained from the operator with a questionable record. The news story below seems to confirm this. I doubt there was a Storm Whistle, Safety Sausage, or CD reflector among them - singnaling items I often suggest are minimum suggestions for any ocean diver. Among lessons to consider, even if the Vacation diver who rents gear can spend $30-40 US on those items. I also carry a Dive Alert whistle. (pics below)...
These people endured most of their misfortune due to terminal stupidity.

The operator may be faulted for all sorts of negligence; poor maintenance on the motor, rotted anchor line, inoperable radio, no compasses on the rental gear, whatever...but all that would have resulted in some severe inconvenience at worst.

What resulted in the death of the young lady was getting into the water. Trying to make any lengthy surface swim in full scuba gear is problematic - how many of us have had difficulty simply swimming back to the boat after surfacing far away from it??

Getting into the water in full gear, BCs, tanks, regs, etc. to try to swim for shore was an unwise choice - especially if you have no exposure protection. The question should run through someone's head: "What happens if we don't make it?" Some divers get cold from a dive in a wetsuit after an hour. After 36 hours or more, the young lady in question quite likely was suffering from exposure and hypothermia.

The operator did not make them get into the water. All sorts of stones can be thrown at the operator, but the operator was not responsible for the decision to abandon the boat and swim for it.....and thats the decision that led to the outcome.

"Bee-Bee" was rescued in decent shape, and quite likely long before the divers were...

Carrying dive alerts and SMBs is advisable, of course, but staying in the boat - even if the engine doesn't work - keeps you with the largest Surface Marker Bouy out there.

IMHO, the operator is not responsible for the direct cause of the young lady's death, tragic as it is.
 
True that that may well be, Doc - Vacation Divers generally depend heavily on the operator for guidance, advice, assistance, and hopefully gear that works safety...

It seems the operator mislead these folks, that the guide simply assisted with the gear when they decided to leave the boat, etc. It would have been nice if the boat had been more sea worthy - working radio and anchor would have been good.

Does the Dive industry not overly suggest that Scuba is safe, and the Travel industry that the Caribbean is a tropical paradise? I wonder if more warnings should be installed in both...?
 
Doc Intrepid:
IMHO, the operator is not responsible for the direct cause of the young lady's death, tragic as it is.

Let the blame game continue.

As is usually the case in the majority of cases where more than one party is involved, responsibility for contributing factors leading to the accident is shared to various degrees by various parties involved. I understand the distinction between direct cause and indirect cause. But there is also the issue of indirect causes leading directly to the direct cause. When the possible negative repercussion of these indirect causes are fully known, and there is a failure to prevent them, the computation of directness is expanded to include other methods of calculation.

Duly considering the laws and norms of pratice in other countries, and the risks one accepts in pursuit of diving under various conditions, the fact remains this operator has gone well beyond all these reasonable considerations to establish a track record of negligent customer endangerment - by anyones standards, as reported by mostly first hand accounts in a thread in the Belizeforum, amongst other sources. This operator exhibits a lack of minimal boat safety equipment, poor equipment quality and maintenace causing equipment to brake or not operate, repeated engine failure and repeatedly running out of fuel at sea, poor seamanship, repeatedly turning over a boat with passengers in it. Failure to subsequently take corrective measures to address issues of deficiency in regards to minimal safety standards. Repeated safety failure and customer endangerment appears to be the safety standard maintained by this operator.

IMHO, this operator is guilty of criminal negligent homicide.

Oddly enough, in the Belizeforums website, a thread was started at the beginning of this year about the disregard for safety measures, plain incompetency, and general dangerous negligent practices by this operator. There was mentioned of the need for change before someone died. Too late now for one person. Yet, in that same forum, and here, others are attempting to absolve the operator of contributory responsibility.

And since we are discussing partial or full fault on the part of those injured and killed, let's not forget to also give full credit to those other individuals, who in other accidents and near misses involving this operator managed to survive uninjured despite the operator's actions placing them at risk of injury.

There are enough accounts by various parties in regards to the practices of this operator, which lead me to give credence to the norms of practice he is accused of.

The question is: How many more people need to die before he is held responsible and is stopped from endangering others?

Do not give any business to Vance Cabral or his busines Advanced Diving. Be on the lookout for any other subsequent similar business or name change that may occur.

I have dove in Belize and elsewhere where poor safety measures were the norm, barely adequate, however, this operator is totally inadequate to meet a bare minimum standard for survival at sea, and extreme in his negligence to the point where I am confident in saying, ff no changes take place, it will happen again and again. Not an if but a when. Oh wait, this is already the standard mode of practice here.
 
In the third world, you often have expensive dive resorts that offer high quality, and you can see it from the big boat and large selection of quality equipment, and then you have cheap resorts that provide lower quality, and again it's reflected in a smaller boat, limited equipment selection and quality, and everything else in addition to price. Most tourists can tell the difference and make their own choices. If you are lucky you may of course find high quality at low price (or vice versa if you are unlucky), but in general you get what you pay for.
 
Wow, a legal-sounding writeup, except for the large number of basic typos.

Accidents generally happen due to a string of problems -- breaking the chain at any point would often change the outcome.

My heart goes out to the young lady who lost her life. I'm trying to understand what lessons I can learn.

For me only, what I would take away is Rule Number One -- any diver can call any dive at any time, no questions asked. That includes, especially, calling it before even heading out.

Closely tied to that, as much as some may dislike the concept, is personal responsibility. Another person may indeed do things which cause me harm. It is, however, at least partly up to me to look for red flags.

It sounds like there was a warning out, and most boats weren't out -- why should I be going out? Rule 1.

If I get on a boat, I do accept that I want to know it's got a working radio -- Rule 1.

Had a mechanical failure, decided to continue on, after most other people decided to get off? Didn't, before deciding to continue, after a mechanical failure, on a day with warnings out, check to know that there was a working radio before pressing on? Rule 1.

Don't leave a boat that isn't sinking. Understand the horizon distance, that just because I can see something doesn't mean it's even faintly close.

If the current is headed in the direction I want to go, I might as well stay on the boat. If the current is headed away from the direction I want to go, swimming isn't an option for me -- I'm not going to outswim even a relatively light current for a significant distance.

The leaky BC -- whether renting or carrying my own gear, I need to perform equipment checks. Do an inflation test, blow it up before heading out, to verify it's holding air OK. Familiarization/equipment check would have shown me that I have a BC that isn't staying inflated. Rule 1.

I need 10 lbs in salt to be neutral at my safety stop. If I dump my weights, empty my tank, I'm 10 lbs buoyant -- that's just in a skin, not a wetsuit. Lesson -- if it hits the fan, I'm on the surface, dump my weights.

The importance of carrying a safety sausage has been drilled home to me multiple ways. In addition to providing a signalling device, my closed circuit sausage provides a buoyancy device.

Those are the lessons I take away -- trying to understand the points where my personal choices/actions could vary the outcome.
 
markfm:
I have to admit, I'm back to wondering about the utility of a small handheld, like a Standard Horizon HX370S, for travel.

I have often considered this but there are several possible downsides.

1) may be difficult to get them into the country, and use without a local license may be a crime (though if you save a life they might skip that).

2) limited range and may be few (or no one) in range to hear them. particularlly if you are in the water, and don't speak the local language.

Perhaps a EPRB like the one at http://www.seamarshall-us.com/
or the newer ones would be good. No line of site restrictions or problems with someone listening. The one at the link is good underwater to 300 meters, and no more expensive that a hand held. Newer ones are not waterproof, and are more expensive but incorporate a GPS.
 
Neat, though the price is a fair chunk more than a handheld. $285 is, though, pretty sweet for the diver's version.

I doubt I'd have any more trouble bringing a marineband handheld in-country than an EPIRB.

Range absolutely is limited. I don't have any scenarios, however, where I'm likely to be beyond LOS of land, VHF FM does have some beyond-LOS propagation, and most places actually do monitor 16, as a hailing and emergency freq.
 
markfm:
I doubt I'd have any more trouble bringing a marineband handheld in-country than an EPIRB.

Range absolutely is limited. I don't have any scenarios, however, where I'm likely to be beyond LOS of land, VHF FM does have some beyond-LOS propagation, and most places actually do monitor 16, as a hailing and emergency freq.
Hehe, you made fun of my overpacking so much for Utila, I didn't bring mine. Got two actually. Usually take at least one on a trip, especially south of the US.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom