Belize Nekton Pilot: Crewmember lost

[Gale68]

Dear fellow divers,

I’m new to ScubaBoard; I just joined last night to see for myself what was being said about Cory’s disappearance. I was a guest on the Pilot for the December 22-29 trip. Cory’s co-workers are profoundly affected by the loss of their friend, but they have gone on with their work with professionalism and dignity. It has been anything but easy, and they have earned my respect.

While “UnderwaterBumbleBee” expresses concern about how Cory’s family might feel about posts here, it appears it has occurred to no one that Cory’s =friends= on the Pilot read this forum too, and some of the comments here have been downright cruel, especially the post up-topic that claimed they did less than their level best to find him. They did everything they could, and to suggest otherwise is completely uncalled for. I’m sure each one of his co-workers will be haunted for a long time over what they might have been able to do to prevent this tragedy. I wish the Belize Coast Guard had done more to help; they arrived late, and it seems to me that if he made it to the surface he could have survived for longer than they searched, but no one will ever know whether it would have made any difference.

UBB has leveled a lot of criticism towards the Pilot’s crew, some related to safety and some not. I have traveled with Nekton several times, and I have never witnessed them foregoing the required abandon ship drill, nor have I ever seen them fail to use the sign-in/out board. Regarding her next point, “romantic” relationships happen on dive boats the world over. I’ve never seen anything unusual about the way Nekton crew members comport themselves compared to other dive operators. And what does this have to do with diver safety anyway? As for the highjinks and horseplay, again, it doesn’t sound like there was anything going on that would impact on safety, so what relevance does it have to this discussion? UBB says she “didn’t post this for people to argue about anything” yet she opinionates in a very inflammatory way. Is that her way of saying she just doesn’t want to hear from anyone who disagrees with her?

Finally, there’s the issue of the scorn some people have directed towards those who choose to dive solo. Cory’s disappearance can be attributed to a combination of factors, only one of which is the fact that he was diving alone. Clearly, solo diving requires very careful consideration of safety issues, but I will tell you I’d MUCH rather dive solo than be arbitrarily assigned to buddy with some of the idiots I’ve had the misfortune to dive with in my life. That's a main reason I’m solo-certified. I dive solo only rarely, and dive conservatively when I do.

Every dive operator has to find a balance between enforcement of safe practices and trusting the maturity and judgment of their staff and guests. I have been diving with a wide variety of dive companies, including various liveaboards, resorts, and day trippers, and I have not observed Nekton to be any less safe than the others, and more conscientious than many.

In hindsight, it is obvious that a lot of little things could have been done differently that might have saved Cory’s life. But no one can know exactly what happened to him, and idle speculation and disparaging comments do nothing to help matters. I’m very sorry I didn’t have the chance to meet and dive with him. He sounds like he was truly a wonderful person who is deeply missed by everyone who knew him, and even some of us who never had the chance. Christmas aboard the Pilot this year was a thoughtful and bittersweet occasion, and Cory and his family have been in our hearts and minds all week.

Respectfully,

Gale Mead

 

[Gale68]

P.S. The nickname "Ginge" doesn't really sound like it's spelled. It's "Ginger" without the "r." They called him that because of the color of his hair. He was well-liked and respected, and it's a real damn shame he's gone.

 

[Nesher]

Dear fellow divers,

UBB has leveled a lot of criticism towards the Pilot’s crew, some related to safety and some not. I have traveled with Nekton several times, and I have never witnessed them foregoing the required abandon ship drill, nor have I ever seen them fail to use the sign-in/out board.


Although you may not have seen them forgo the required abandon ship drill, on this particular trip that is exactly what happened.

Regarding the sign in/out board - I believe UWBB stated that she believes that everyone should be required to use the board, including the crew when going out for personal diving purposes.

She also stated that it might be beneficial for it to be on the dive deck.


Regarding her next point, “romantic” relationships happen on dive boats the world over. I’ve never seen anything unusual about the way Nekton crew members comport themselves compared to other dive operators. And what does this have to do with diver safety anyway?

If there is a perception that undue attentions is being directed toward one particular guest at the expense of the others. (And trust me, several of the guests noticed and mentioned it on more than one occasion)

I believe discretion would have been a bit more in order.

Are you saying that in a land based hotel/resort or on a liveaboard vessel , that it's acceptable for the staff to attempt (and succeed) to sleep with the guests because they need comfort?

It's important to remember that you were not there. Regardless to what people do, and who they do it with, there is a professional demeanor which should be exercised in the workplace.

I might be at play but it's a fact they're at work. I expect them to conduct themselves as if they are at work. Someone needs to run the operation around there.

One of the two relationships UWBB mentioned appeared to step way beyond the boundaries of professionalism. However, I am beginning to see that professionalism is not highly valued as much as I believed.


As for the highjinks and horseplay, again, it doesn’t sound like there was anything going on that would impact on safety, so what relevance does it have to this discussion?


I agree this might not have been the correct forum to mention that aspect of the trip. However, those statements remain extremely relevant to the overall state of the vessel that particular week.


UBB says she “didn’t post this for people to argue about anything” yet she opinionates in a very inflammatory way. Is that her way of saying she just doesn’t want to hear from anyone who disagrees with her?


UWBB can fend for his or herself, but, why the personal attack?

Can't we defend the Nekton without attacking someone else in the process?

If a person has a tenuous or untenable position, by all means that position is fair game. But, why does the attack have to become personal?


Every dive operator has to find a balance between enforcement of safe practices and trusting the maturity and judgment of their staff and guests. I have been diving with a wide variety of dive companies, including various liveaboards, resorts, and day trippers, and I have not observed Nekton to be any less safe than the others, and more conscientious than many.


We all love and appreciate Nekton, but, something happened here that has happened before. What, I ask you, will it take before someone decides to revisit the standards and procedures for a good review of policy?


In hindsight, it is obvious that a lot of little things could have been done differently that might have saved Cory’s life. But no one can know exactly what happened to him, and idle speculation and disparaging comments do nothing to help matters.


I've always had a problem with the thought police w/in public forums; attempting to dictate what should or shouldn't be said and how we should or shouldn't speculate.

If I am correct, that is exactly what these forums are for; to speculate about what happened, how it happened, and why it happened to ensure that it NEVER happens to one of us.

That is what this forum is supposed to be about; to allow divers to examine ALL aspects of the situation to see if seemingly unrelated events are indeed related and germane to the issue/topic of discussion.

With regards to solo diving, in this particular case having a buddy may have helped to save a young man's life. However, this is only speculation on my part.

If you're solo certified and you're comfortable diving alone who are we to tell you what and how much risks you should assume. Just be safe and above all be careful.

Man to be really honest, I'm still not over this thing. I was there and I don't know if I'll ever forget it.

I can't wait to dive again, but, I know I won't forget Ginge.

 

[Trwmodela]

These earlier comments are really concerning about Cory's equipment...if they are fact. Someone else must of know this before his night dive.


1. His computer was broken
2. He had no depth gauge
3. He had no night glow sticks or tank indicators
4. He didn't have on a wetsuit and crew said he tended to overweight himself

 

[Gale68]

Nesher....

<I>Regarding the sign in/out board - I believe UWBB stated that she believes that everyone should be required to use the board, including the crew when going out for personal diving purposes. </i>

I do agree this would be a good practice, but that had nothing to do with this situation, and I doubt lack of it has ever resulted in the Pilot accidentally ditching a diver. When a DM goes into the water, whoever is working the dive deck knows it, and would not allow the boat to leave without him or her.

> She also stated that it might be beneficial for it to be on the dive deck.

I can see her point, but you can't get to the dive deck without passing it, so to me, the wall where it's located is effectively part of the dive deck. The DMs =do= notice if someone goes into the water without signing out, though they may not call everyone's attention to the fact. I've been on boats that use a board that the diver has to check off, but it's not mounted on a wall, so you sometimes have to go looking for it, or the divemaster holding it. Some dive operators have NO sign-out/in board. The divemasters are expected to keep track of who is off the boat, with or without a clipboard. One such dive operator left me and my buddy behind at a dive site (resort diving in Baja) and refused to believe they had abandoned anyone even after the boat that picked us up radioed them. Every method of tracking divers has at least some potential to fail, but that has nothing at all to do with what happened to Cory.

<I>If there is a perception that undue attentions is being directed toward one particular guest at the expense of the others. (And trust me, several of the guests noticed and mentioned it on more than one occasion)<i>

You had a crew-to-guest ratio of two to three and still felt there wasn't enough staff attention to go around? I don't know what to say to that.

<I>I believe discretion would have been a bit more in order. </i>

From what UBB said, there was no inappropriate behavior, just a sense that some guests (namely the ones who were "having relationships" with crew members) were more welcome to hang out in the pilot house than others. I wasn't on board that week, but I can imagine how that could provoke resentment for some.

<I>Are you saying that in a land based hotel/resort or on a liveaboard vessel , that it's acceptable for the staff to attempt (and succeed) to sleep with the guests because they need comfort? <i>

I never said anything of the sort. I won't quote myself; my original post is there to review what I <I>did</i> say. But to clarify, if two people meet who enjoy each other's company, regardless of whether one of them is there to do a job, as long as the job itself isn't compromised, it's none of my business. From what has been said, the main complaint was whether or not guests were welcome in the pilot house, not whether or not the crew members were doing their jobs.

Back to the subject of how Cory's loss could have been prevented, it sounds like he took risks that most of us would not, if he was diving solo at night without a computer, depth gauge, or lightstick, but every diver makes decisions about the level of risk they are willing to tolerate. Who gets to make the rules? Who's safer? A PADI diver or a GUE adherent? Someone with instructor certification and two years of diving experience, or someone with only basic certification and 30 years of experience? A solo diver on a tropical reef with no redundant air supply, or a buddy pair of newbees in kelp, cold, and current? A diver who smokes, or one who is overweight? I am fully open to debating these issues, in a way that I hope will generate more light than heat, in whatever the appropriate forum is. Since I'm new here, maybe someone can point me to the right place to debate these issues, since it's more general than the issue of this particular incident.

Nesher, UBB, and the rest of you who were there that night, I'm very sorry for what you had to go through; I'm sure this experience will live in your memory for a long time.

Gale

 

[diveski01]

These are the reports.
I. INCIDENT BRIEF

17 Nov 2002: Duty IO received call from duty watchstander reporting death of diver on board NEKTON RORQUAL. NEKTON RORQUAL was conducting a 6- day dive cruise when one diver was spotted unconscious in 60 feet of water. Diver's buddy replaced respirator, which had been removed due to convulsions, and began surfacing. Diver surfaced with no vitals. Diver received CPR for 90 minutes by fellow diver. Diver did not respond, and pronounced deceased. Cause of death unknown.

This incident was a passenger, not a crew member, and was NOT solo diving. He was never more than 40 feet from a buddy during this 10 minute dive just below the boat. His reg wasn't out of his mouth more than 20 seconds, probably less. He was among 5 buddies. Crew administered CPR and O2 until the captain, with the aid of a passenger medical doctor (cardiologist), pronounced him. Crew was ready to provide CPR for 48 hours if that was an option. Boat was too far from any rescue organization. I know all of this first hand because I was one of his dive buddies.

Although that was my last trip on Nekton - so far - I have nothing but praise positive for the captains and crew during three trips. Crew members are only allowed to dive if they are off duty or are performing a function of their job assignment. They can't just jump in any time they wish therefore passengers are not "left hanging" because a crew member decides to take a dive (or cozy up with a warm body).

 

[mrsilly]

For those of you "complaining" about the "romantic" relationships that were happening during this trip you do not know the whole truth. The female passenger who was in the pilot house often was a girlfriend of one of the crew members. Every once in a while she pays for a trip to visit her boyfriend. There is nothing wrong with that. Also, did you see any PDA? I would think the answer is no. People were able to step into the pilot house if they asked. Whenever a guest came to speak with that certain crew member, the guy would take care of the guest and "ignore his girlfriend". My mother was on this trip and did not have any issues with the "romantic" complaints others may have had. There was purportedly one guest who complained about everything and you know who you are. If it was such a big deal, you should have confronted the crew member. Besides, sometimes what people may think is "romantic" is just two people having fun because they're friendly people and have similar interests. No one was ignored.

I personally dated a 1st mate on a local dive boat. He and I spent time together diving. HOWEVER, when it came to his job, I let him do what he needed to do. "Guest satisfaction" was not an issue. Most people either knew we were dating or figured it out by asking one of us.

 

[fairybasslet]

There was purportedly one guest who complained about everything

There seems to be at least one of these types of people on every boat. Unfortunately they often ruin the trip for the rest of the guests.

I am deeply sorry to hear of this accident. I know that the crew of all of the boats I've been on, live-aboards or day boats, work very hard and are generally friendly people who become a part of one's life for a short period of time. I would be sad to learn of the passing of any of the crew it has been my honor to meet, and I do know of one crew member that made my trip particularly memorable who is no longer with us. I am still saddened by this news even though it happened years ago.

 

[diveski01]

For those of you "complaining" about the "romantic" relationships

Way off topic but my guess is some are just jealous that nobody was hitting on them.

I know of a select few former - long time - liveaboard crew members who met passengers that became their current - long time - SO's. I know of several former crew members who are now married to other former crew members. Some are hired on as a couple. During 3 separate weeks on a liveaboard I've never seen a crew member even attempt to get any action from a passenger. I have seen passengers trying very obviously to get involved with crew members to no avail.

After the first liveaboard you learn within first day or so that most of the crew has already paired up with other crew so there isn't really that much hooking up with passengers. Nor is there much time for that! The crew works 24/7 x weeks on end for the most part while on board. It's a very different life style that involves very intensive work.

I have seen MANY passengers be friendly - as in platonic commaraderie (sp?) - with MANY crew members and vice versa. A fun and eagerly helpful crew makes for a great liveaboard experience. It's great to hear them say at the end of the week how much easier their job is with nice customers vs. cranky bratty needy customers.

P.S.: My heart-felt condolences to the family and friends of this lost crew member. It sounds as if he loved his life as a career dive professional and that he was loved by the many who knew him.

 

[diveski01]

Who gets to make the rules? Who's safer? ... I am fully open to debating these issues, in a way that I hope will generate more light than heat, in whatever the appropriate forum is.Gale

It's all been debated ad nauseum already. As a new member, if you search for any of the terms solo, GUE, DIR, smoking, etc. you will find thousands of posts containing endless debates.

Each diver must make their own choices and must be prepared to take responsibility for understanding the associated pro's and con's.