Before you take your open water course

[seaducer]

I think the reference to military survival swimming is over-the-top. I think the 500m swim is a little unreasonable as well. Diving for the vast majority of people just isn't that strenuous. Sure, it would be great to be in such excellent condition. But it certainly isn't required.

I'll agree that treading water with combat gear is non-applicable to diving. Either your BCD will keep you on the surface or you will have ditched everything anyway.

However, 500 meters is not a far distance. It is 10 laps in a typical gym pool. It takes me less than 15 minutes to swim that far, if I am not trying. And I am not in any means great shape.

While diving for the vast majority of people is not strenuous, conditions can change in a hurry. I think that divers should be in ok shape. And I think that the current trend of lowering standards to accomodate the lowest common denominator is one day going to get people hurt, if it hasn't already.

There is nothing wrong with telling somone "hey, you are picking up about 40 pounds worth of gear and jumping in water over your head, can you swim well?"

Finally, and lets keep everything civilized, I just do not get the idea that advocating people get in shape is such a bad thing? For one, he isn't "imposing" anything on anybody, and second, even if he is, what is wrong with us today when everything is automatic, remote controled, and we can't even walk around stores without scooters?

Again, 500 meters is a pittence in a pool, like walking a mile. Only people who can't swim or are in horrific physical condition would not be able to achieve that distance. Probably much quicker than you think possible. But unless someone is saying you shouldn't dive if you can't pass the APFT, well, I see nothing wrong with advocating fitness.

 

[Sas]

The swimming tips and snorkel tips pages are ostensibly completed. I welcome feedback and questions on content, validity, sources, etc.

Scuba Tips.

Ok cool you did some updates The stuff you wrote about getting used to snorkelling with no mask on I think would be very helpful to new OW students who are having trouble with mask clearing. I had heaps of trouble with this skill and it was because I would breathe in through my nose and mouth at the same time. I got over it before my final OW dives by snorkelling in the sink at home without a mask (couldn't get to the pool) I think a lot of people who struggle with mask clearing have the same problem, where they breathe in automatically though their nose without a mask on.

Now with the swimming skills. I think if people learned those skills it would make them more comfortable in the water. I don't think they are necessary for diving but are really handy skills to have for comfort in the water and also general fitness. When I did Rescue class we had to do a few of them - underwater 25m swim and tow a diver 50m (we did this multiple times). Most people (we had a fair mix of age and fitness) managed after a few goes so it isn't beyond most people's abilities in my opinion. Another thing we had to do was tread water for 5mins holding 6lb out of the water. Not sure what the purpose was behind that one though. Swim was 300m any stroke, untimed. I think most people could have handled another 4 laps....

Links were handy too

 

[Thalassamania]

I think the reference to military survival swimming is over-the-top. I think the 500m swim is a little unreasonable as well. Diving for the vast majority of people just isn't that strenuous. Sure, it would be great to be in such excellent condition. But it certainly isn't required.

I think the term that he's looking for was "survival swim."

The physical requirements you would impose would eliminate a vast number of students. Many would see the list and walk away. The sport would be limited to 20 year old ex-military students. Middle aged people need not apply.

Hardly, I have paced the swimming for every leadership course I ever ran, I can easily do the required 1/4 mile in the required time using nothing but side-stroke. I'm pushing the end of middle age right now, I'm not in the shape I once was in, but I can still do that, easily.

This sport is supposed to be fun, not an endurance contest. Just drop off the boat, descend the anchor line, swim around, ascend the anchor line and get back on the boat. How tough is that?

It's not tough at all, most all of the time, that's part of the problem. The other part is that we do have a huge dropout rate, I'm willing to bet that people who can pass a more rigorous swim test will be less likely to drop out.

 

[rstofer]

It's not tough at all, most all of the time, that's part of the problem. The other part is that we do have a huge dropout rate, I'm willing to bet that people who can pass a more rigorous swim test will be less likely to drop out.

You're right of course. The dropout rate (in percentage) would be much lower because the startup rate would be lower. You would have already filtered out the marginal divers.

Equipment prices would increase due to a reduction in demand. Many suppliers would drop out (that could be a good thing) and there would be a need for a whole lot fewer dive shops and instructors. Think of 90% fewer shops and instructors. Air could get scarce in areas away from hot dive spots! The tourism losses alone would be devastating. What does Cozumel have to offer if it wasn't for diving?

Heck, we could get even better numbers if we recruited new divers from BUDS training on Coronado Island.

Who cares about the dropout rate? It's irrelevant. People come, people go. It's the same with any activity. It's interesting for a while. Then it's boring. Then it's more trouble than it's worth. Then it's history. Very few people do anything for a lifetime.

We need marginal divers and we shouldn't care about turnover. It's about spending money - on this sport, not golf.

Partly in jest, mostly serious...

Richard

 

[seaducer]

You're right of course. The dropout rate (in percentage) would be much lower because the startup rate would be lower. You would have already filtered out the marginal divers.

snip

Heck, we could get even better numbers if we recruited new divers from BUDS training on Coronado Island.

Lets not get carried away, Slonda was suggesting being able to swim 500 meters. If someone cannot do that for health reasons then they should absolutely not be diving. If they cannot do it because they cannot swim, well I just do not understand the mentality that allows for someone to scuba dive who can't swim. Drowning is a real and life threatening activity.

Just to put it in perspective, 500 meters is a warm up distance for swim workouts. Most 8 year olds who are half way through a swim class can do 500 meters. We are not talking BUDS, or Ironman, or anything like that.

 

[Slonda828]

I think the reference to military survival swimming is over-the-top. I think the 500m swim is a little unreasonable as well. Diving for the vast majority of people just isn't that strenuous. Sure, it would be great to be in such excellent condition. But it certainly isn't required.

The physical requirements you would impose would eliminate a vast number of students. Many would see the list and walk away. The sport would be limited to 20 year old ex-military students. Middle aged people need not apply.

This sport is supposed to be fun, not an endurance contest. Just drop off the boat, descend the anchor line, swim around, ascend the anchor line and get back on the boat. How tough is that?

Richard

Richard, I agree with you. This is not for everyone. It is for the people who choose to use it to improve upon some skills. I have a bunch of older dive buddies, and they are all better divers than I am, even if I can swim farther. You are also right, it isn't that tough to dive. But if you want more, you should be able to get ideas on where to get more. That's what this is for. That's the best part, you don't have to do anything. You can look at it, realize it isn't useful for your application and move on. I am also not imposing standards on anyone, this is all self-paced and self-lead. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[NudeDiver]

I don't think you take up hiking as hobby unless you can make a 20 mile forced march with full pack - just to make sure you can handle any problems that might come up while you're out for your 5 mile day hike. After all, hiking in the forest can be dangerous!

 

[seaducer]

I don't think you take up hiking as hobby unless you can make a 20 mile forced march with full pack - just to make sure you can handle any problems that might come up while you're out for your 5 mile day hike. After all, hiking in the forest can be dangerous!

Agreed, now people are thinking! Always exceed expectations

 

[Slonda828]

Agreed, now people are thinking! Always exceed expectations

Hey brother, it's like "they" always said, nobody wants to tell their husband or wife that they only manage to meet the Army's minimum standards!

 

[Thalassamania]

I don't think you take up hiking as hobby unless you can make a 20 mile forced march with full pack - just to make sure you can handle any problems that might come up while you're out for your 5 mile day hike. After all, hiking in the forest can be dangerous!

That's fatuous.