Before you take your open water course

[Slonda828]

Thank you for putting the information back up. I have a few comments about the site:

This skill here is unclear to me "-Be able to survive in the water for 30 minutes.". Do you mean treading water? That was my first guess but to me it should be more specific about the skill.

Also I don't know whether you have any interest or time to expand on it, but you mentioned earlier about snorkelling tips. I am a strong swimmer but have never snorkelled before (well a few times in scuba classes but don't consider this much experience at all) So if you have any tips to add for snorkelling, I think that would be an improvement to the site as well too

Another thing I thought is that a training schedule might be nice. The site has the skills listed but not how to achieve them. Again this might be outside the scope of what you were trying to achieve but just thought it would be handy.

Now I have seen it, I fail to get why there was a fuss in the first place. The skills seem reasonable to me!

Thanks for your honest feedback. I am trying to express that you can tread water or float. When I was taught water survival in the military, the trick was to not actively tread water, because (especially with water logged combat gear on) it is a surefire way to get tired and drown. We were taught to allow ourselves to sink in a relaxed posture and the return to the surface for air. I need to figure out a more effective way to express this. Maybe a link to the Army or Marine Corps water survival manual is in order. It was in my original works cited, but that went the way fo the dodo with the old site.

Also Sas, I plan on expanding to the original level. The bad part is, the site stores your data on the server, so when my last mailbox was full of "you are going to kill everyone" emails, I deleted all the material that the server had stored as well. So I'm literally sitting here recreating this from memory again. The next page I post will be exclusively devoted to snorkeling. The one following that was skin diving.

IMHO, regarding why it drew so much fire, I could've portrayed it better. Furthermore, there are a lot of instructors that can't swim this well. People can flame me all they want, but I have physically seen instructors who couldn't swim for 500 meters. When a regular old diver suggests that everyone be able to do that, it worries people who can't.

You also raise another great point. If people want a schedule to work on achieving this level of fitness, I'd be happy to post one on the site. I'm not a physical trainer, but I did spend 9 years in the military, and I did plan, prepare, and execute physical training ad naseum for years. Swimming really isn't the devil once you do it enough, and now that they make a waterproof Ipod case, it's actually not that boring

 

[NudeDiver]

Just a suggestion to the OP - add a feedback link to the site and let people send you feedback privately that way. That way, it doesn't turn into another big pissing match.

 

[Slonda828]

Just a suggestion to the OP - add a feedback link to the site and let people send you feedback privately that way. That way, it doesn't turn into another big pissing match.

That's a great idea, I need to figure out how to do that. Besides, I don't need my mailbox to do its best impression of an IED again.

 

[NudeDiver]

That's a great idea, I need to figure out how to do that. Besides, I don't need my mailbox to do its best impression of an IED again.

Add this to your site somewhere:

<a href="mailto:someone@yoursite.com?subject=Site Feedback">Send Feedback</a>

Substitute your email address in there. Get a throwaway hotmail address or something, so your "real" mail box is protected.

You can then use Hotmail (or wherever you get the new address) to deal with the mail.

 

[nelia1978]

Remember a few things here. I didn't say anywhere on that page that you HAD to do any of this. Since it is MY page, it has MY opinions on it (I know that's crazy, stay with me though). It says right on the page that this is harder than a regular SCUBA class. You can disagree all you want, but I'm not forcing anyone to look at it, follow it, or adhere to it. I'm simply passing on my observations from my experience diving, my experience working with new students, and my experience in the military. I didn't say anyone had to use it, did I?

No offense, but if you can't swim 25 meters underwater easily, in my opinion you shouldn't be an instructor. Come to think of it, all the recreational agencies agree with me on that. Maybe being physically fit does do something for your diving, I followed this program when I created it in grad school and I can swim 50 meters underwater on a single breath. Don't believe me? The YMCA pool is two blocks away, meet me there when I'm not in class and I'll show you how to do it.

I know we all have our different opinions, and these are mine. If you are in physically poor condition, re-evaluate yourself, but don't tell me that my program is flawed, it's hard on purpose. It is not meant for the moderately overweight vacation diver, it is meant for someone who wants to do this seriously, and as a form of physical fitness. Remember there ARE people out there who want to take a course that is harder than the one the 275 pound 45 year old man with the beer gut took to get his card.

WOW.... seems like you got some anger issues.

 

[Slonda828]

WOW.... seems like you got some anger issues.

In all honesty, ask yourself what, if anything your comment contributed to this discussion of generating, improving, and validating my web site. Furthermore, I implore you to post something on this board and have several people vilify you for it, and to then return here and let me know if it irritated you.

I also noticed that according to your profile, that you have never even taken a diving course. I find your ability to place yourself in my shoes drastically reduced by the idea that you have absolutely no frame of reference or personal experience whatever in regard to what we are actually talking (and sometimes arguing) about.

I am not trying to sound rude, but maybe you should dive for a bit, then come back when you have some experiences through which to develop opinions.

 

[Thalassamania]

WOW.... seems like you got some anger issues.

Don't attack the person, deal with the issue. Do you agree with the ideas, or not? Should an instructor be able to do swim 25 meters underwater, etc.?

 

[Slonda828]

The swimming tips and snorkel tips pages are ostensibly completed. I welcome feedback and questions on content, validity, sources, etc.

www.slonda828.webs.com

 

[yusufmane]

I am sorry to throw out some disagreement, but I am concerned that although following what you describe will result in well-prepared divers, it has a number of problems and in some cases may do more harm than good.

This class has your opinions on what someone needs to do to be ready for a scuba class. Not everyone will agree with all those opinions. I for one, don't agree with more than a few. For example, I have many students complete courses with ease without having snorkeled or skin dived nearly as as much as you advocate. Some have never snorkeled before at all. Your swimming portion is more rigorous than is generally required. Many agencies have no requirement for a 25 meter underwater swim.

In your opinion, perhaps that is the way it should be, but that is your opinon and not the general opinion of the dive community.

You also have the student trying to learn certain skills without the benefit of an instructor. They may struggle to learn these skills on their own when a skilled instructor could solve problems easily. For example, you say students should learn whether or not they can clear their ears or if they have fears before they waste their money on a class. Lots of students come to classes with ear clearing problems or with fears. A skilled instructor can handle both problems, often with ease. If potential students were to follow your advice, they might never meet that instructor.

You say that a class consists of two days of classroom instruction only. That is only true if the student has perviously completed a self study of all the instructional materials You left that fact out.

In my experience, preparation for a scuba class is far less daunting than you suggest, and I fear that your prescuba class could have the effect of stopping many people who would otherwise do just fine.

HEAR,HEAR!!! Iagree I am one of those who had fears and my instructor slowly helped me through them.

 

[rstofer]

Thanks for your honest feedback. I am trying to express that you can tread water or float. When I was taught water survival in the military, the trick was to not actively tread water, because (especially with water logged combat gear on) it is a surefire way to get tired and drown. We were taught to allow ourselves to sink in a relaxed posture and the return to the surface for air. I need to figure out a more effective way to express this. Maybe a link to the Army or Marine Corps water survival manual is in order. It was in my original works cited, but that went the way fo the dodo with the old site.

I think the reference to military survival swimming is over-the-top. I think the 500m swim is a little unreasonable as well. Diving for the vast majority of people just isn't that strenuous. Sure, it would be great to be in such excellent condition. But it certainly isn't required.

The physical requirements you would impose would eliminate a vast number of students. Many would see the list and walk away. The sport would be limited to 20 year old ex-military students. Middle aged people need not apply.

This sport is supposed to be fun, not an endurance contest. Just drop off the boat, descend the anchor line, swim around, ascend the anchor line and get back on the boat. How tough is that?

Richard