Becoming a DM - Padi or a different Org?

[Seaweed Doc]

The quality of DM training depends on the instructor, not the agency. If you will be using the DM credential in a PADI shop, then you MUST be a PADI DM.

Huh. This stumped me.

I know that to "count" as a DM for teaching purposes, a PADI instructor must use a PADI active-status DM. Thus I could see most shops wanting consistency across DM's and instructors.

But I also know a PADI shop that has instructors work through them in an odd arrangement that are NAUI-trained. Now I'm wondering if the odd arrangement allows this and the shop couldn't, e.g., directly hire or contract with a NAUI instructor.

 

[tursiops]

Huh. This stumped me.

I know that to "count" as a DM for teaching purposes, a PADI instructor must use a PADI active-status DM. Thus I could see most shops wanting consistency across DM's and instructors.

But I also know a PADI shop that has instructors work through them in an odd arrangement that are NAUI-trained. Now I'm wondering if the odd arrangement allows this and the shop couldn't, e.g., directly hire or contract with a NAUI instructor.

If it is a PADI class, it must use PADI professionals.
I think the same is true of SDI and NAUI....you must use your own professionals.
A shop might offer classes from more than one agency...but would have to use that agency's professionals for its classes.
And, a professional might hold credentials from more than one agency.

 

[Angelo Farina]

@Norwegian Cave Diver I envy you...
Planning to work as DM after retirement implies 3 things:
1) being able to retire early
2) being in good health
3) being motivated to continue to work hard and to assume significant responsability.
I do not meet any of these criteria, as I will retire at 70, my health is already bad now at 63, and I decided that being a diving professional was too demanding for me when I ended my professional diving career, back in 1989, when I was 31.
However at that point I had been working for 5 years as DM and instructor in touristic resorts (in the Mediterranean and at Maldives, with a short period in Kenya), so I can provide my vision on this job.
First of all, I was working half time as a diving guide (in the morning) and as an instructor (in the afternoon).
These are two quite different jobs. The diving guide has to manage a group of expert divers, often driving the boat and managing the related nautical activities. The dives can be deep, in our organization the limit for recreational divers was 50 meters with deco. We did dive also in caverns and wrecks. The customers were often undisciplined and the DG had to be authoritative. I was young, many divers were twice older than me, and it was sometimes difficult to be obeyed.
Instead teaching was easier and less risky, there was some activity in the pool, some in the sea in a few meters, starting from the beach. Students were literally doing anything you asked them to do, I was like a god for them.
Working in exotic resorts is entirely different than working in a shop in a normal town. I have no direct experience of the latter, as it is something which did never appeal to me.
But there is a third possibility, which instead I did both before and after my years in the resorts: being an active instructor in a no-profit organisation, a diving club.
This is very stimulating, particularly if getting some wage is not your priority. Diving clubs are very nice social groups, where you find a lot of friends. All real friends in my life are fellow divers I met in that diving club. Some were the instructors who introduced me to diving, some were students who trained together with me, some were my own students.
If you plan to find a good activity for your retirement, evaluate joining or founding a diving club.
There you can teach, operate as a diving guide, be the organiser of travels and excursions, organise civil protection activity in cooperation with authorities, etc.
Many diving clubs are structured as no-profit charities, so instructors and DMs are classified as volunteers.
Of course, also a diving club is affiliated with some training agency. So you must qualify with the same agency for being able to teach in their organisation. So in this a club is very similar to a shop.
Of course usually clubs are not affiliated with for-profit agencies, such as Padi, as this would not cope with their not-profit statute.
Here in Europe most clubs are affiliated with not-profit organizations, such as Cmas, Bsac, Fipsas, Barakuda, etc...

 

[cribbj]

To the OP, I just wanted to share my experience of attaining my PADI DM cert many years ago, and how it affected me and how it still feels today.

Up to the point of gaining my DM I really loved recreational diving and experiencing all the wonders beneath the sea, interacting with fellow divers, and generally just having a great time topside as well as down below. However after becoming a DM and and guiding 20-30 dives at my favorite locations in the Red Sea, I found that I no longer enjoyed the diving as much, as I was constantly looking over my brood and making sure everyone was OK. In short, there was a much greater sense of responsibility once I crossed that line from being a recreational diver to a semi-pro.

Fast forward about 25 years and I still feel that way and am constantly checking people in my dive group, even though I'm not the dive leader, only a tourist. And I find that I'm still not enjoying the dive as much because of that overriding feeling of responsibility that I can't seem to shake.

I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but it's something you may want to consider as you go forward with your DM training/certification. In any event, best wishes to you!!

 

[Angelo Farina]

To the OP, I just wanted to share my experience of attaining my PADI DM cert many years ago, and how it affected me and how it still feels today.

Up to the point of gaining my DM I really loved recreational diving and experiencing all the wonders beneath the sea, interacting with fellow divers, and generally just having a great time topside as well as down below. However after becoming a DM and and guiding 20-30 dives at my favorite locations in the Red Sea, I found that I no longer enjoyed the diving as much, as I was constantly looking over my brood and making sure everyone was OK. In short, there was a much greater sense of responsibility once I crossed that line from being a recreational diver to a semi-pro.

Fast forward about 25 years and I still feel that way and am constantly checking people in my dive group, even though I'm not the dive leader, only a tourist. And I find that I'm still not enjoying the dive as much because of that overriding feeling of responsibility that I can't seem to shake.

I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but it's something you may want to consider as you go forward with your DM training/certification. In any event, best wishes to you!!

I entirely agree, it had been my experience, too.
This is point 3) of my previous message:
3) being motivated to continue to work hard and to assume significant responsability.
I ended my "pro" experience after "just" 5 years for a number of reasons. But one was certainly being relieved by the constant anxiety of being responsible of the safety of other divers...
I was able to bear it when I was young, but the idea of coming back to that constant pressure after retirement is not appealing for me.
If I will arrive to retirement age still in conditions for diving, I suppose I will just make very soft touristic activity in warm, tropical waters, or here in the Med during summer.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

To the OP, I just wanted to share my experience of attaining my PADI DM cert many years ago, and how it affected me and how it still feels today.

Up to the point of gaining my DM I really loved recreational diving and experiencing all the wonders beneath the sea, interacting with fellow divers, and generally just having a great time topside as well as down below. However after becoming a DM and and guiding 20-30 dives at my favorite locations in the Red Sea, I found that I no longer enjoyed the diving as much, as I was constantly looking over my brood and making sure everyone was OK. In short, there was a much greater sense of responsibility once I crossed that line from being a recreational diver to a semi-pro.

Fast forward about 25 years and I still feel that way and am constantly checking people in my dive group, even though I'm not the dive leader, only a tourist. And I find that I'm still not enjoying the dive as much because of that overriding feeling of responsibility that I can't seem to shake.

I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but it's something you may want to consider as you go forward with your DM training/certification. In any event, best wishes to you!!

Very interesting. I found this to be more of an issue when I first became a DM. Since then, I've learned to compartmentalize. If I'm diving for fun, I'm focused on taking pictures not what's going on with others in the group. But there was a learning curve of sorts to be able to do that.

Not that I don't notice if somebody is in obvious jeopardy or distress. I'd noticed that long before I became a DM and would intervene then as my knowledge allowed. But I no longer make a point of overseeing the group. (In fact, I usually don't dive for fun in a group unless I'm being a tourist and paying.)

To the OP: You'll get strongly differing views on what I'm about to say. I think people's experiences as DM/Instructor vary here. Some say that if they show their DM or Instructor card they get asked to work for free. That is, to be a babysitter. That's never happened to me. In fact, I had the opposite happen last summer: I got on a boat, camera and Instructor card in hand, and asked the DM if I could hang a bit behind the group and take photos. He said sure, and gave me substantially discretion to do what I wanted. The second day of diving with the same DM he basically said take off and do your thing, just let him know when I was low on air. (It was a patch reef, so we'd never be far apart but could be out of sight.) All to say sometimes the DM/Instructor card gives you more freedom with SCUBA nannies who are supervising a bunch of vacation only, once every 2 years, OW divers.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with Scraps and John on page 1, especially about working with students. It was a way that I could get a toe back into education after a teaching career. But, I needed to get paid (at least what I figure was about minimum wage)-- enough t cover more than just my own diving hobby. Without a salary I would not have considered myself the well-used term "dive pro". But that's just me.

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

Very interesting. I found this to be more of an issue when I first became a DM. Since then, I've learned to compartmentalize. If I'm diving for fun, I'm focused on taking pictures not what's going on with others in the group. But there was a learning curve of sorts to be able to do that.

Not that I don't notice if somebody is in obvious jeopardy or distress. I'd noticed that long before I became a DM and would intervene then as my knowledge allowed. But I no longer make a point of overseeing the group. (In fact, I usually don't dive for fun in a group unless I'm being a tourist and paying.)

To the OP: You'll get strongly differing views on what I'm about to say. I think people's experiences as DM/Instructor vary here. Some say that if they show their DM or Instructor card they get asked to work for free. That is, to be a babysitter. That's never happened to me. In fact, I had the opposite happen last summer: I got on a boat, camera and Instructor card in hand, and asked the DM if I could hang a bit behind the group and take photos. He said sure, and gave me substantially discretion to do what I wanted. The second day of diving with the same DM he basically said take off and do your thing, just let him know when I was low on air. (It was a patch reef, so we'd never be far apart but could be out of sight.) All to say sometimes the DM/Instructor card gives you more freedom with SCUBA nannies who are supervising a bunch of vacation only, once every 2 years, OW divers.

I see some the same thing already. We were away for the month of Feburary diving primarily at one dive shop and doing all shore dives. The first day of registering and showing them my Padi MSD card and my Iantd cave card. I joined a few guided dives and two that were Deep Certs for divers and I was respectful and sat in on the instructors briefing. The two guys taking thier deep cert got all of the dive plan and expectations listed and when I asked the instructor what I should be doing - he said anything I want. Being horizontal in the water, frog kicking and being great or gas consumption quickly takes their concerns away. Im not interested in beinng a babysitter. Wish I could teach Buoyancy Trim Propulsion to the AOW and above divers. Thats what interests me most.

 

[boulderjohn]

Some say that if they show their DM or Instructor card they get asked to work for free. That is, to be a babysitter. That's never happened to me. In fact, I had the opposite happen last summer: I got on a boat, camera and Instructor card in hand, and asked the DM if I could hang a bit behind the group and take photos. He said sure, and gave me substantially discretion to do what I wanted. The second day of diving with the same DM he basically said take off and do your thing, just let him know when I was low on air. (It was a patch reef, so we'd never be far apart but could be out of sight.) All to say sometimes the DM/Instructor card gives you more freedom with SCUBA nannies who are supervising a bunch of vacation only, once every 2 years, OW divers.

That's always been my experience. I have NEVER been asked to do any sort of babysitting, and I have instead been given a lot of freedom to do the dives I want to do.

About a dozen years ago I got on a dive boat in Hawai'i with nearly 20 divers. As usual, I had checked in with an instructor card. The full group was broken into 3 groups. When our group got together, we learned that everyone in our group had more dives than our DM, who was a trainee. We were told to do our dives, just staying reasonably close to the DM as he learned the reef, etc. Our group splashed first and had a great dive. When we surfaced, the other two groups, supposedly all just OW divers, were already back on the boat, dive times considerably shorter because of the inexperienced divers. I always wondered if there were any instructors in those two groups who had outsmarted the operator into thinking they were only OW divers.