If you look back a few posts I went into quite a bit of detail explaining some of the reasons why I want the inflator where it normally is. In short, it's so I can more easily use it while I'm performing other common tasks including some emergency procedures. I did leave out a really obvious reason though and that is that I don't want any part of the BC where the I3 is. I want my fron and sides clear for other things...and if I don't need those other things, just clear is nice. I will certainly agree that many BC's use hoses that are much longer than they need to be and don't provide a good way to secure them.
BC's with "Elevator" Lever
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If you look back a few posts I went into quite a bit of detail explaining some of the reasons why I want the inflator where it normally is. In short, it's so I can more easily use it while I'm performing other common tasks including some emergency procedures. I did leave out a really obvious reason though and that is that I don't want any part of the BC where the I3 is. I want my fron and sides clear for other things...and if I don't need those other things, just clear is nice. I will certainly agree that many BC's use hoses that are much longer than they need to be and don't provide a good way to secure them.
Mike: Thank you for this very sensible post. Some people do prefer to use different tools for different jobs.
I have a 25 year old SQ hard back pack and simple 33 lb. wing that is my favorite for beach diving and drysuit diving. I also have another SQ BC, only made for year or two, that has mostly back inflation and a simple cumberbund, no D-rings, two small pockets, my favorite for travel/resort diving. For boat diving in SoCal I like my Apollo bio-control weight integrated.
Every BC thread does seem to turn into a BP/W vs. Jacket style BC. As you say Mike: "It's not the only solution."
evil_xander
Contributor
Air goes in through the corrugated hose, which doesn't drag around as it should not be too long (which it usually is with most jacket BCs) and is tied/secured to the left chest D ring. Feel free to check out the photo of my setup on the link below, does it look like a big ***** hose?
http://www.inet.hr/~astancin/DSCF0304.jpg
Air goes out through the dump valve(s), and sometimes but very very rare through the hose, as simple as that. As you learn and get more proficient and keep horizontal, this comes as a second nature, hence the difference in the approach to the use of corrugated hose. But, I do like it that way as I was in a situation where I had to orally inflate the wing (operator error/stupidity on my side). I'd not be too happy to use that little tube hidden somewhere...
So, I like it just as it is. Your preferences may vary, but I feel it's important to learn things properly from the beginning (buoyancy control that is) and later on move to whatever you like (ie. i3 system).
mikeguerrero
Guest
Evil Xander,
Your statement implys that my lack of skills in scuba directed me to the i3. I plain to differ with you, I dove a variety of BC's that were complete corrugated hoses. I enjoyed all of them and did my OW dives in 2 foot of visibility 50 degree Moneterey waters.
I never flinched in my training and was quite proud of my accomplishments.
I came real close to purchasing a BP/w from diverite express, really close. The whole kit along with some steel tanks.
At the last moment I pulled away because I just didn't feel comfortable with the corrugated hose as compaired to where the i3 sits.
Xander have you dove the i3? Like you mention so much in your reply about others not trying the BP/W.
I have dove in the Ocean in extreme conditions of Monterey only jacket and back inflate and the i3. Out of those three I choose the i3 hands down.
I'm a new diver, very new but the fact that I have dove under Monterey gives me some credibility.
Xander, don't get me wrong because I have received good information from you and it was very objective advice when I was in search of my HP Steel tank.
You clearly demonstrated all the features and benefits of the HP Steel 119. I believe you guys in Europe call it the 15L tank. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge.
Because of your advice I dive two HP steel 100's and couldn't be happier.
Xander you even gave great advice on the Pinnacles Evolution 2, I have read your entire statements and cannot wait to dive dry.
I currently dive wet but it's Pinnacles wetsuit and I dive a three piece suit, heated torso, hooded vest and a 7mm full suit all Merino linning and at 48 degrees in Monterey I have endured 4 consecutive beach dives and still had fun.
I however, don't like the feeling of my surface intervals and cannot wait to come out dry and want to dive again.
Diving wet is fun and I feel very streamline in the water via diving wet and there is not too much bulk, dry looks bulky but the warm factor looks too appealing to worry about bulk.
Now back to the BP/W, some where on this thread I have mentioned that I will probably convert not because the i3 is not good, but the fact that I change a lot and move with what I feel I need and what gives me satisfaction.
The i3 served that purpose then, and is still serving me today; will that change in the years to come, YES AND I WILL NO DOUBT JUMP INTO A DRYSUIT AND BP/W BECAUSE I LIKE EVERY INPUT EVERY BP/W DIVER HAS SAID ABOUT THEIR SETUP. What this means is that if so many BP/W divers are really content and switched from Jacket to BP/W then they know what they are talking about, both professionally and recreationally.
There just isn't any convincing divers that have switched i3 to the BP/W yesterday or today. I might be the first in a year, but for now let me enjoy my diving!!!!!
Thanks,
MG
Your statement implys that my lack of skills in scuba directed me to the i3. I plain to differ with you, I dove a variety of BC's that were complete corrugated hoses. I enjoyed all of them and did my OW dives in 2 foot of visibility 50 degree Moneterey waters.
I never flinched in my training and was quite proud of my accomplishments.
I came real close to purchasing a BP/w from diverite express, really close. The whole kit along with some steel tanks.
At the last moment I pulled away because I just didn't feel comfortable with the corrugated hose as compaired to where the i3 sits.
Xander have you dove the i3? Like you mention so much in your reply about others not trying the BP/W.
I have dove in the Ocean in extreme conditions of Monterey only jacket and back inflate and the i3. Out of those three I choose the i3 hands down.
I'm a new diver, very new but the fact that I have dove under Monterey gives me some credibility.
Xander, don't get me wrong because I have received good information from you and it was very objective advice when I was in search of my HP Steel tank.
You clearly demonstrated all the features and benefits of the HP Steel 119. I believe you guys in Europe call it the 15L tank. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge.
Because of your advice I dive two HP steel 100's and couldn't be happier.
Xander you even gave great advice on the Pinnacles Evolution 2, I have read your entire statements and cannot wait to dive dry.
I currently dive wet but it's Pinnacles wetsuit and I dive a three piece suit, heated torso, hooded vest and a 7mm full suit all Merino linning and at 48 degrees in Monterey I have endured 4 consecutive beach dives and still had fun.
I however, don't like the feeling of my surface intervals and cannot wait to come out dry and want to dive again.
Diving wet is fun and I feel very streamline in the water via diving wet and there is not too much bulk, dry looks bulky but the warm factor looks too appealing to worry about bulk.
Now back to the BP/W, some where on this thread I have mentioned that I will probably convert not because the i3 is not good, but the fact that I change a lot and move with what I feel I need and what gives me satisfaction.
The i3 served that purpose then, and is still serving me today; will that change in the years to come, YES AND I WILL NO DOUBT JUMP INTO A DRYSUIT AND BP/W BECAUSE I LIKE EVERY INPUT EVERY BP/W DIVER HAS SAID ABOUT THEIR SETUP. What this means is that if so many BP/W divers are really content and switched from Jacket to BP/W then they know what they are talking about, both professionally and recreationally.
There just isn't any convincing divers that have switched i3 to the BP/W yesterday or today. I might be the first in a year, but for now let me enjoy my diving!!!!!
Thanks,
MG
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Mikeguerrero,
My whole point isn't weather there's a lever or no lever or a corrugated hose or any other trick feature on the your i3. My issue is with the whole concept of that type of rig that you have as opposed to a minimalist rig. I don't see much difference in what you have to other rigs that are designed similarly. They all are bulky, they have way to much integrated stiching and unnecessary panels of screen materials sewn in almost like a graphic element and the complexity of the over engineering is mind boggling. Most of those type rigs have one cam band strap with a plastic cam buckle, they have plastic clips on the shoulders. Believe me I look at all this new stuff when I go into dive shops and I wonder, where will it end, is it all necessary? Well It's necessary for the manufacturers, how else are they going to sell stuff if the next guy comes up with some new trick gimmick.
I don't like the idea of a cumberbun and I really don't like the idea of integrated weights.
If any of that plastic gets smashed or breaks on a trip you'll miss dives. You may think your rig is streamlined, it's really not. All that bulk around the sides and on the shoulders interferes with the slipstream. With this added drag you have to work harder to overcome the turbulence caused by the bulk. This relates to more air usage. You tell us that your i3 dumps air faster than any other BC, that's great, but if you're weighted correctly and have good diving skills you won't have to dump that much air that quickly, this to me is just another gimmick. The BC, weather it's a jacket or wing, should only be used to take the edge off and if you're doing it correctly you should only need to shoot small amounts of air in and dump small amounts out to maintain neutrality.
With a simpler rig there is no plastic anywhere on the harness webbing or plate. Stainless is used for everything.
The only thing that could possibly fail would be the wing so some people carry a small rolled up spare wing with them and/or a patch kit in their travel bag.
I'm not trying to be nasty or beat up on you but I get frustrated with the industry as a whole and hate to see new divers get sucked into the huge dive industry fleecing machine. I guess my arguments are pointed more at them and not you, so please don't take it personally.
As a final word, I say if you like your rig then dive it to death and if you get a chance to use a BP/W try it you may like it. But the important thing is that you keep diving and mostly that you are having fun. And BTW I also see some zealous BP/W divers that spend many more thousands than you can believe and get sucked into an even more vicious trap called tech diving, oh my gawd!
This board and all boards are going to be full of opinions and I'm no exception. That's what makes in fun and intersting and in the spirit of free speech.
My whole point isn't weather there's a lever or no lever or a corrugated hose or any other trick feature on the your i3. My issue is with the whole concept of that type of rig that you have as opposed to a minimalist rig. I don't see much difference in what you have to other rigs that are designed similarly. They all are bulky, they have way to much integrated stiching and unnecessary panels of screen materials sewn in almost like a graphic element and the complexity of the over engineering is mind boggling. Most of those type rigs have one cam band strap with a plastic cam buckle, they have plastic clips on the shoulders. Believe me I look at all this new stuff when I go into dive shops and I wonder, where will it end, is it all necessary? Well It's necessary for the manufacturers, how else are they going to sell stuff if the next guy comes up with some new trick gimmick.
I don't like the idea of a cumberbun and I really don't like the idea of integrated weights.
If any of that plastic gets smashed or breaks on a trip you'll miss dives. You may think your rig is streamlined, it's really not. All that bulk around the sides and on the shoulders interferes with the slipstream. With this added drag you have to work harder to overcome the turbulence caused by the bulk. This relates to more air usage. You tell us that your i3 dumps air faster than any other BC, that's great, but if you're weighted correctly and have good diving skills you won't have to dump that much air that quickly, this to me is just another gimmick. The BC, weather it's a jacket or wing, should only be used to take the edge off and if you're doing it correctly you should only need to shoot small amounts of air in and dump small amounts out to maintain neutrality.
With a simpler rig there is no plastic anywhere on the harness webbing or plate. Stainless is used for everything.
The only thing that could possibly fail would be the wing so some people carry a small rolled up spare wing with them and/or a patch kit in their travel bag.
I'm not trying to be nasty or beat up on you but I get frustrated with the industry as a whole and hate to see new divers get sucked into the huge dive industry fleecing machine. I guess my arguments are pointed more at them and not you, so please don't take it personally.
As a final word, I say if you like your rig then dive it to death and if you get a chance to use a BP/W try it you may like it. But the important thing is that you keep diving and mostly that you are having fun. And BTW I also see some zealous BP/W divers that spend many more thousands than you can believe and get sucked into an even more vicious trap called tech diving, oh my gawd!
This board and all boards are going to be full of opinions and I'm no exception. That's what makes in fun and intersting and in the spirit of free speech.
mikeguerrero
Guest
Zky,
I appreciate your words of enlightment towards the BP/W. Like I mentioned before and like I'll mention again. My next BC will be BP/W, mark my words. I do like the streamline approach and I'm extremely jealous of Evil Xanders set up simple yet complete and professional, it kicks butt.
Like Darth Vader said to Luke, "Son, it's too late for me save yourself". I've been on the darkside of the force since my OW classes started and it will take a powerful Jedi to bring me over.
Give me time to explore the Ocean not as a Jedi but as as Sith lord and loyal servant to the Empire. Let me feel the powers of the dark side just a bit more.
Once my power fades, i3 will be just a memory and I'll be a Jedi like the rest of you.
MG
I appreciate your words of enlightment towards the BP/W. Like I mentioned before and like I'll mention again. My next BC will be BP/W, mark my words. I do like the streamline approach and I'm extremely jealous of Evil Xanders set up simple yet complete and professional, it kicks butt.
Like Darth Vader said to Luke, "Son, it's too late for me save yourself". I've been on the darkside of the force since my OW classes started and it will take a powerful Jedi to bring me over.
Give me time to explore the Ocean not as a Jedi but as as Sith lord and loyal servant to the Empire. Let me feel the powers of the dark side just a bit more.
Once my power fades, i3 will be just a memory and I'll be a Jedi like the rest of you.
MG
evil_xander
Contributor
Mike, my statement was more towards Mark and Vixtor, whom, if I recall correctly (pardon my possible mistake, it is a long thread and I have no desire scrolling back), claimed had problems with the functioning of the hose and dumping air from the jacket. I know you specifically got it because you mentioned how fond of new technology and gadgets you are. But, I still feel you should, for the sake of yourself, get some practice with the regular inflator jacket/whatever BC, even more if you don't want to re-learn everything at once if you go BP/W & drysuit at the same time (this is not a simple thing to learn at once).
I have not dived the i3 and have no such plans, unless somebody makes a wing with such system for me to try it out. I'm not going back to any jacket type BC, regardless of the inflation/deflation system (and you learn to see the drawbacks even more when diving dry). Jacket BCs suck for many reasons I already stated.
BP/W is not a magical solution also, but I find it more appropriate for me, and by rule of thumb, for most of my diving colleagues/buddies. I could settle for a minimalist back inflate BC with i3 to try out, but not jacket.You're right about the bulk factor of the drysuit, it is and it will never be like diving wet, simple and streamlined, so if you can handle it, go wet. I'm a sissy so I gave up.
evil_xander
Contributor
On a side note, there's nothing simple and/or streamlined about a drysuit (apart it being a garbage bag with seals and valves, overpriced), it's a whole different thing in the water. I still don't like the drag factor comparing with a wetsuit, not sure if I ever will, but it has its other significant advantages.
BTW, you can save money and buy the good stuff initially, I was selling my jacket BC, 1,5 YO, for 6 months before I finally got rid of it, not that there was anything wrong with it. Alas, nobody told me anything about a BP/W system during or after my OWD course, I learned about it here, SB=BP/W evil empire. :14:
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zen_man
Contributor
GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE! JUST GO DIVING!
Mike,
My wife and I will be diving Monterey this weekend. Let me know if you'll be there.
:zen:
Mike,
My wife and I will be diving Monterey this weekend. Let me know if you'll be there.
:zen:
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