BC Vest problem

[gj62]

OK - so the argument that an Air2 is "one less hose to look after" is basically just crap then?

I'm not an Air2 advocate, but I fail to see the correlation between your BC auto-filing and your safe-second free-flowing - it's a defective piece of your basic life-support system and you abort the dive.

Also, I would think that prudence (you know her, right?) would state you abort the dive even if you do not use an Air2 in this case. If your inflator is stuck in the open position, it can leak from your BC, definitely making continuing the current dive a less than ideal proposition. However, if I'm on a 2-tank dive, I abort that dive, out comes my screwdriver and off comes the auto-inflator. As long as my buddy is cool with it, I don't mind manually dealing with it (I did that long before I got my first auto-inflator) for the next dive.

 

[pipedope]

When I learned to dive both power inflators and octos were rare.
We trained to manually inflate the BC, which was a horse collar type. We also learned to buddy breathe.

Do I want to go back? NO!

But manual inflation of a BC is a basic skill.

Buddy breathing is not so usefull anymore as both buddies must practice regularly for it to be a good option.

If someone has an air2 and they have to disconnect the LP hose then it is time to end the dive. If they have a standard octo it is a judgement call on the part of the diver and their comfort level.

 

[Boogie711]

I'm not an Air2 advocate, but I fail to see the correlation between your BC auto-filing and your safe-second free-flowing - it's a defective piece of your basic life-support system and you abort the dive.

Also, I would think that prudence (you know her, right?) would state you abort the dive even if you do not use an Air2 in this case. If your inflator is stuck in the open position, it can leak from your BC, definitely making continuing the current dive a less than ideal proposition. However, if I'm on a 2-tank dive, I abort that dive, out comes my screwdriver and off comes the auto-inflator. As long as my buddy is cool with it, I don't mind manually dealing with it (I did that long before I got my first auto-inflator) for the next dive.

How can you not see the correlation?

Your BC is autofilling. What do you do? You disconnect the hose. Now, you have no inflator and NO BACKUP REGULATOR.

No thanks.

 

[gj62]

How can you not see the correlation?

Your BC is autofilling. What do you do? You disconnect the hose. Now, you have no inflator and NO BACKUP REGULATOR.

No thanks.

Boogie - I should have said "difference", not "correlation" - I wrote something else and didn't erase quite that far back. Regarding no inflator, that air you're exhaling? You can put that in your BC. So, you have no *auto* inflator, and yes, you abort the dive.

Same if your octo is free-flowing. Sure, you can auto-inflate your BC, vs manual, but you should still abort the dive.

 

[Boogie711]

I don't really care about not having an inflator... if my inflator hose starts to freeflow, filling my BC, I disconnect it, dump the excess air and abort the dive. I think you and I agree.

My point is just really simple - if I was diving an Air2, I've also just disconnected my backup regulator. Now, THAT I care about, a whole lot. You know your analogy about Safety Sausages? "This is the type of item where when you need one, you really need one." I would argue that's correct - but it's much much more correct for a regulator, don't you agree?

For the life of me, I cannot understand why people willingly choose to put their life at risk by diving with one of those things.

 

[Bubble Blower 479]

After certification without power inflators, we dove for 10 Years without them. Filling your BC manually was just part of diving. I can't see why you should abort the dive. If so, I couldn't have been diving for 10 Years. It takes more effort, but it's not hard. OTOH Loss of your alternate is a good reason to abort.

 

[gj62]

After certification without power inflators, we dove for 10 Years without them. Filling your BC manually was just part of diving. I can't see why you should abort the dive. If so, I couldn't have been diving for 10 Years. It takes more effort, but it's not hard. OTOH Loss of your alternate is a good reason to abort.

If you're auto-inflator is stuck open, then when you remove the LP hose, it may still be open and water can go in, as well as air out, of your BC through that stuck valve. Granted, it probably won't amount to much given normal diving attitude (horizontal on belly, or even vertical), but you never know.

If you were sure that it was only open when you had pressure on the valve, you might consider continuing, but why not be safe and sure?

 

[Paul Evans]

If i,ve got this right what Boogie711 is trying to point out is you have just lost two :11: very important items in one hit, losing one is bad, but two!!!, you have to call the dive

 

[gj62]

If i,ve got this right what Boogie711 is trying to point out is you have just lost two :11: very important items in one hit, losing one is bad, but two!!!, you have to call the dive

As I said above, you should abort in any event.

I accept that you could have an accidental inflation while using an Air2 as a backup source - you would then have to disconnect and either CESA or buddy breathe or breathe out of your BC. This does pose more risk than having a separate octo. As I said, I'm not an Air2 advocate, but I'm also aware of the statistics of these types of errors and the chances of them occuring simultaneously is fairly small. That does not mean there's zero risk.

 

[Boogie711]

As I said above, you should abort in any event.

I accept that you could have an accidental inflation while using an Air2 as a backup source - you would then have to disconnect and either CESA or buddy breathe or breathe out of your BC. This does pose more risk than having a separate octo. As I said, I'm not an Air2 advocate, but I'm also aware of the statistics of these types of errors and the chances of them occuring simultaneously is fairly small. That does not mean there's zero risk.

Mitigating risk is part of the nature of the beast. The only way to remove all risk is to not dive.

However, voluntarily accepting a risk for no reason other than "it's one less hose to worry about" or "it's easier to look after" is unacceptable, as far as I'm concerned.

I always get a kick out of people who dive with an Air2, but still carry a Pony bottle. That's a classic case of not thinking through your gear configurations.